Stereophile "confirms" Moncrieff's SACD comments ?


You folks remember a thread about SACD that mentioned J. Peter Moncrieff's comments about SACD being "junky" at higher frequencies ? Well, if you read the September issue of Stereophile's review of the $16,500 Accuphase SACD player, you will see that John Atkinson somewhat confirms Moncrieff's statements. Here is a direct excerpt from the test results that JA published in that specific Stereophile review ( pages 115-116 ):

"Again, the player's excellent dynamic range is revealed, at least in the low treble and below. Note, however, the rise in the noise floor above 2 KHz, this due to the aggressive noise-shaping used by the SACD's DSD encoding. By comparing fig 4 with fig 3, you can see that SACD has less inherit dynamic range above 10 KHz than CD, though this is largely academic, i feel."

Since you can't see the graphs without looking at the actual magazine, i'll try to sum it up. CD shows a rise in noise above appr 2 - 3 KHz. The slope climbs at a gradual rate as frequency rises. On the other hand, SACD shows the same rise in noise at about the same frequency point, but the slope is much faster and sharper. By the time we get to 20 KHz, standard "redbook" CD is actually about 15 db's quieter in terms of the noise floor and increased dynamic range.

Besides all of the above, which some "might" say justifies Moncrieff's opinions of poorer high frequency performance on SACD, JA goes on to show the spectral analysis well beyond the 20 KHz range. The rising noise level that begins at about 2 - 3 KHz continues to rise until we hit appr 70 KHz. Using a dithered 1 KHz tone as a reference, the noise level climbs to a point that is PHENOMENALLY high i.e. appr 80+ dB's noisier than it is at 1 KHz !!!

While i don't know if this phenomena is directly related to the Accuphase design being used or can be found in all SACD players due to the wave-shaping taking place, it makes me wonder if this is what has given me a headache aka "listening fatigue" on a few occasions when listening to some SACD's ??? Is it possible that the level of ultrasonic noise and ringing is high enough to the point that it can ruin what might otherwise be a pleasureable experience ?

As a side note, the jitter on this machine is PHENOMENALLY high. JA measures it at 4.26 nanoseconds of peak to peak jitter while running in redbook format. He comments that this is "more than 20 times higher than i have found in the best cd players and processors". He then goes on to "feed a signal into the DAC section of the player via the DP-85's S/PDIF data input with 16 bit data of the same signal, the measured jitter level dropped to a respectable 311 picoseconds." As such, the phenomenally high level of jitter is directly related to how they are transferring signal from the transport into the DAC. For a "lowly" $16.5K, you would think that they might be able to do a little better. Even the "respectable" 331 picoseconds of jitter is quite high in my opinion. Sean
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sean

Showing 1 response by tswhitsel

I have never owned anything but redbook CDs and have stayed away from SACD because it is a limited and expensive format. Add to that the fact that its future, or any new digital format for that matter, is questionable. I held out a good 10 years after digital hit the market place and like many here feel analog is still the most musical, although there is no shortage of bad analog recordings. Like many here I too have owned a plethora of inexpensive and expensive CD players and DACs over the past 10 years or so including 2 Accuphase units. But the only unit I've found to come close to the sound of analog are Jerry Ozment's tube output designs. I currently own my second Audio Logic model 34 DAC having sold the first one to a friend. I tried several after that sale including an Accuphase DP-65, but nothing came close to the Audio Logic. I was happy when I found a great deal on the second one here on Audiogon. Frankly I'm surprised more here on Audiogon have not caught on to Ozment's designs (he designed some for Jadis, Altis, and VAC I believe). Perhaps Audio Logic is just not mainstream enough to have gotten the reviews that drive this silly hobby so much. It surprises me how close the model 34 comes to the sound of my Well Tempered Reference and with good recordings it can be quite stunning. I also use a CEC TL2 for a transport, which I have found to be the most analog sounding so far. For me it has always been about the music and for the moment it looks like redbook is here to stay, and the used market is flooded with redbook CDs, however good or bad they may be. Seems no one feels that SACD players sound as good on redbook CDs anyway. For now anyway I'll stick with my Audio Logic and would encourage others to check out Ozment's designs. Just my two cents worth in this never ending debate.