David you will find that vinyl sound staging is much bigger in general. There is so much more nuance to LPs that it will be strange to you when you hear something that you "know" from years on CD.
You should play around with your speaker placement until you find sound staging is accurate.You should use acoustic/non electronic with the least amount of editing/production.Listen and think of where the instruments should be if they were in front of you on a stage.
One of my rigs is junk compared to what you have and it images magic easily.
Did you or a knowledgeable person set it up? If it is a pre-installed and shipped setup I wouldn't trust it.At the very least download and print a protractor and check alignment.You can get a digital scale online for less than $30.00.Not a $150.00 made for turntable scale but a small,flat digital scale that works just as well,or better.
setup can and will effect the imaging.
welcome to the charming world of vinyl,you will find that you are now into the hobby. |
This is typical of some early Jazz recordings. The CD may have been remixed. |
I mean early stereo Jazz recordings, of course. |
Interesting. So, if that is true, then there likely isn't a difference if I were to buy a 180g version of the album. Records aren't remastered correct? (sorry, fairly new to vinyl) |
Very interesting question. I guess I'm facing the same thing with my Rega P3. But never considered this as a problem. |
I suppose I'm not sure if it is a problem. Slightly strange to my ears, but I'm used to listening to CDs for the better part of my life. |
Sometimes I hear the same, especially with the Decca/London Phase 4 Stereo records. There are right and left instruments and the lack of the middle. I think the mode of the recording/mixing is that where the dog is buried. |
Thanks Amater - I would think you are correct, as I do not have the same separation (left/right) issue on all recordings.
Emorrisiv - The Music Hall MMF 2.2 table cable preinstalled with a cartridge. All I had to do was set the tracking weight and anti-skate. One of the reasons I bought the Music Hall is that you can adjust the VTA. I need to and will get a protractor to check alignment. I don't really know what I am doing, though, in that respect, or how to realign the cartridge if need be. Does anyone have any recommendations of articles/how-to's that might be helpful? |
I would trust your ears on this one. You don't need to go moving your speakers around. Hard panning of instruments to left, right, and center was very common in the early stereo era. |
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I would recommend getting a test record.One that tells you"this is the left channel,this is the right channel..." and more importantly will check phase.If you have a channel out of phase,it will make the soundstage seem excessively wide.It will also help you achieve peace of mind,when tweaking.Casey. |
Dmloring, This is a long time favorite album of mine. I first bought it on CD many years ago, and it had the extreme hard left and right stereo. Later, I bought a copy of it for a friend, and the newer copy was an RVG remastered version. The Rudy Van Gelder reissue, though clearly stereo, was much more down the middle, and I actually prefer the earlier version. I think this is generally true about the more recent RVG remasterings. Both vinyl versions of this that I own, one a Japan King Blue Note and the other a recent 180 pressing have the original hard L and R stereo.
MnMark |
Casey -- great idea. Thanks.
MnMark -- interesting. Not quite sure how that sound is considered stereo. If my integrated amp had a mono switch, I might actually considering using that on records like this. As for Somethin' Else. Next to "The Cannonball Adderly Quintet in San Fransisco," this is one of my "desert island" albums. Spontaneous Combustion is simply one of the most outstanding tunes ever recorded, IMO, by Cannonball. |
That is just typical early Blue Note stereo recording as the engineer Rudy Van Gelder early on did not have a pair of speakers so he hard panned each channel so he could hear it on his mono Altec 604. I think the later recordings are less extreme but many jazz listener just gotten used to that hard left and hard right and it sort of became a trademark of recording of this era. Simply play a mono recording on your turntable and play the same mono CD and you notice there's no difference. If the stereo CD of the same recording is different in terms of soundstaging, then it has been remixed. You just happened to find an extreme case here. There's nothing wrong with you system and this extreme hard pan thing has nothing to do with the intrinsic nature of turntable system. Just enjoy the music. |
A test record can be very helpful for base lining things,but I find that the more you understand and "hear" what is going on with the rig that you will make adjustments for the better. This is particularly true with VTA. I also adjust my VTF frequently depending on what I hear with a given disc.This is a subtle change,but one that can make a big difference in the nuances.
As for the VTA;listen to simple acoustic music first and make sure it is not too muddy(arm too low),or too high (arm too high).Then listen to some acoustic jazz that has a decent bass with the same thing in mind.
When you feel that you are in the ballpark,use a vernier caliper and record the height of the arm. That way you can return to the base line point that you have labored over.
If you buy the 180-200g albums you will want to raise it.If you listen to old RCA Dynagroove and Dynaflex records you will want to lower it. These movements are very minor.Of course the high end arms that have VTA "on the fly" where you can adjust it while it is playing makes it a very easy job.And if anyone is skeptical about my methods;go listen to one of the new VPIs with the JMW arm that can be adjusted while playing.You can just turn the know and the sound changes like a tone control.
This kind of fiddling is so much fun and part of the charm.
but you have to be careful.
e |
For what it's worth, I have the Mobile Fidelity 'Original Master Recording' CD version of 'Somthin' Else' (AAD) and it is the best-sounding CD I own (as presented by my Meridian 508). It is definitely the hard-pan version, but I love this album! I have an LP 12 but I'm not even thinking of 'going there' i.e. getting a vinyl copy to compare, even though I'll take vinyl over CD most days of the week. |
yes, this is typical of many jazz albums. I subscribe to the Music Matters repro's of Blue Notes and there are many that present this way. I can see why it would bother those who look always for how well their system stack up to those audiophile parameters of imaging, soundstage, etc. Personally, I buy these for the music only. I'd bet most would sound best completely in mono. But then all the audiophiles wouldn't know how to act when they hear it. :-) |
