Dear Posters, I deeply thank you for you willingness to stand on the the principals of Steam Cleaning. Lets move forward , together. Deep Stean Cleaning , in my view, is a scientifically sound, practical method to clean vinyl recordings. You 'Goners have proven that as fact. Tvad noted recently the importance of the final rinse. I believe his view can not be over-stressed. Without the final rinse ,certian record cleaners will not be removed and the benefits of deep steam cleaning may not be fully realized. In our discussions it appeas what water product is to be used for the final rinse continues to be an open question. I use Peak Battery Water ; former postings on AG make us aware That "Peak" is an option among many options. For instance, in the latest edition of "Stereophile" Mr. Fremer reviews the Gem Record Cleaner, that relys on a final rinse of pressured tap water. Tvad's remarks highlighting the final rinse are instructional. I hope further discussion as to product A VS product B shall continue. Friends, I have requested AG delete the hurtful words in recent weeks on the closed thread ; please contact [email protected] to express your opinion. The closed thread contained factual, helpful information; why not restore it to the dignity that AG & we deserve. |
Zenblaster: Have you ever Steam cleaned a LP ? If you have, Please, post on cleaning issues. If not, read on you may learn something positive about steam cleaning.
Should you feel the need , respond to me , about me, for me ,against me, off site. I will respond only to remarks focused on AUDIO.
And Zen, I wish to correct one misconception: At no time did I make veiled comments on AG regarding you or your other-self Bernard. None what so ever, period.
Why act to discredit a significant Thread regarding record cleaning ? Everybody that's anybody in Audio reads AG ; here and abroad those with financal interests in regard to record cleaning are either laffing or cheering on this circus koz it distracts from the fact ... Steam Cleaning works. And, its cheep! |
In response to Ericjabara's thread; a review of the GEM on the 6 Moons web site & Stereophile's review of the GEM, I am prepairing to experiment using hot/warm tap water & concentrated record cleaning fluids inconjuction with deep steam cleaning w/ a final rinse.
The tap water delivey system was developed from of parts sourced @ Home Depot , as well as, a deep discounted , professional all purpose end sprayer for outdoor gardens , sourced from a local store w/deep end of season discounts.
The Tap Water Delivery Parts : A GE 4' Universal Washer Hose, stainless endings w/ S.S. mesh covering triple-ply hose ($13.00), Watts all brass adapter A-665 ($4.00) and Gilmore Manufacturing Co , brass , metal & plastic complete hose end sprayer, the 362-D, (80-90% off $7.00).
The 362-D sprayer is very compact & adjustable; the 362-D comes with a lifetime replacement policy. The 362-D unit is very powerful , it's small , easily attaches to the utility tub faucet's with lots of room to spare for the GEM record holder to sit on the base of the tub.
I must admit, the sprayer has the vague appearence of a water gun but it is far more powerful and fuctional; Its all metal w/ a solid brass nozzel with an adjustable deflector for precise spray pattern.
As an altermative to the 362-D unit, I purchased a Vigoro goose neck all brass neck w/ a shut-off valve ($7.00) and a "needle-type" Vigoro Sweepe brass & Plastic Nozzle ($3.00).
More to come later. |
Herman : Let's Just Step Back in Time ...
Vinyl cleaning methods were in the dark ages with cloths , buffers and sprays until vacuum based record cleaning machines which, in my opinion, offer a iffy first line of defense for deep cleaning vinyl.
For my part, I was content to think & develop all sorts of vinyl cleaning machines as my way to combat unremitting cronic pain from an automobile accident that led to a series of heart attacks and worse.Overcoming cronic pain became a personal contest ; I focused on Audio as a way to overcome the effects of being bed-ridden for years with crippeling effects of pain & the disabilities the accident forced upon me. Pain changed me .
And , that is where matters stood until a friend suggested I forwarded a short article on deep steaming vinyl records to Listener Magazine. " And it Makes A Fine Gift" was lite-hearted tome outlining the stean cleaning method. "Gift" was published by "Listener" also as my challenge to the audio review community , many of whom had presented rather droll ideas on cleaning vinyl in a recent edition of "Listener" specifically devoted to cleaning records. "Listener" had intended to review steam cleaning ; all that fell-thru with the demise of the Mag. However, Art Dudley didn't forget about me or steam cleaning.
Sometime later, Michael Fremer of "Stereophile" notifed me of his interest in the steaming subject. That began months of z-mails resulting in his testing the method for soundness & safety; Mickey became a reluctant convert. Thereafter, "Stereophile" published Mr. Fremer's articles relative to steaming , even including brief side-bar on steaming in the '03 "Recommended Issue" : In early, 2006 they printed an two part article regarding record cleaning in which they acknowledged me was the person behind the steam cleaning method.
Since before then and after, my phone hasn't stopped ringing . A few of those calls include audio manufactures requesting private demostrations of steaming . Guess what won ?
Along the way , Mr. Fremer sent me a cautionary email about publishing one's views , allowing me to read some comments he is at times sent. I didn't get it then but I do now.
For my part, I should not have responded to your comments except respectfully, or not at all. For the record, I did not diss anyone . But, when you take this Hobby to the next level, the critera change.
One narrow comment; specifically, some private and governmental instutions have God-Knows how many recordings left in storge for years. It is an now ongoing in-house debate if these recordings will be held for the future or for budgetary reasons turned into trash. I know; I personally spoke to a Libary of Congress person that expressed reservation to accepting my collection of 1887-1900 Edision wax cylinders because , in part, of cost associated with preservation. I believe I know the value of those waxes on the open market , but that didn't matter.
I make no apology for others people's wealth (sorry). As for all the rest , I'll plead guilty koz I'm not going to go to jail for being such rabid audio hound . But, none of what I have outlined permitted to you the right to state some remarks that led to the thread's demise.
Herman, my apology. This is my last public comment ; I hope all will agree. |
Pain changes us all. Those that live thru it are far different than when we began. I was always "brite" but no longer. Pain opened doors within the mind that hundreds of years of living may not. We are all different. I think all of us must come to terms we are the LAST of the Analog generation. Only, the Billionaires will suceed us to afford the cost(s) of analog into the future. Digital will prevail , but for the few with analog recordings they have the challenge as to how to preserve and play those black orbs. That is the challenge into a uncertian future. |
Stltrains : Regarding your "Q" of 8/27, I choose to experiment with combining other water inspired record cleaning methods just to determine if George Merrill is on to something so simple & cheap.
But there is a second reason.
I have been contacted by a lady who owns a considerable 1960's era R&R collection mostly 1st edition, mostly autographed LPs that have become infected with mold .
Her grandchild has cancer. The Staff at Johns Hopkins Hospital required her to seal the entire collection in plastic due to the mold that they fear may compromise the child's health. She is a care-giver to the child. She now requests my aid in saving those LPs & covers. The collection is about 1,000 LPs. I'm scrambling for ideas before I accept the task. |
Halcro: I received emails from steamers that said steaming ,alone, worked for them. |
Motnic : The Deep Steam Cleaning Thread develed into "Last". According to the information posted, "Lasts" compounds can not be removed by steam cleaning or other cleaning methods. The bad news posted was that ,at times, "Last" and other products ie, "Sound Guard", do not age well, creating a significant noise signature that may leave the LP with unacceptable noise making it unplayable for some readers. |
I have been experimenting with bacteria specifically engineered to produce enzyme's that eat certian organics ,quickly, for about a year. The organics the bacteria eat are about identical to what is found on LPs.
Some fluid designers relate they do not believe any organic material can be located on the surface of a vinyl LP. Others strongly disagree, having tests to prove the point.
The bacteria come from 2 different sources and are patiented products . The difference between enzymes only and bacteria? Bacteria are a natural living thing that digests organic material leaving H2O & C02. A steam rinse ends the natural process.
In case I havn't noted it , much of this was outlined on the old thread, including the fact the bacteria are harmless to us and our pets.
In an email to Michael Fremer last year, I detailed some dramatic results with LPs that resisted any form of cleaning and more dramatic results with bacteria cleaning on "average joe" LPs. The drawback? Time, bacteria cleaning takes time but may out-do enzymes that only break down the organics to smaller particles before being lifted off in the cleaning process. Bacteria on the other-hand eat off the enzymed organics in ways that only a microscope can verify. Bacteria products cost next to nothing compaired to the prices for enzyme products now offered for sale to audioers. More later. As for today, use the enzymes they can't hurt, except in the pocketbook. |
According to those fluid designers ,that discuss enzymes in one to one conversation, the detergent industry has made significant contribution towards the development/formulation of labatory produced enzymes.Some fluid designers relate that since there enzymes are based on Mother Nature the enzymes they harvest in a lab setting are in-fact "natural".
Enzymes are naturally produced by bacteria to allow germs to digest organic debris. Chemists contracted by fluid designers have been tweaking the detergent-type formulas for cleaning LPs.
Bacteria designers are patienting certian forms of bacteria that are said to produce more effecient forms of enzymes for commerical purposes : In the petrol industries,for drains and sewer systems. Bacteria cleaning is becomming as huge industry , saving lot of $$$$$$ to Government and Industry that's just beginning to reach the consumer. What these bacteria digest and what's clogging the record groves is similar if not the same, organics.
Vinyl is inert. However, mold release compounds , common mold, and pollution in homes ,etc. are generally based on organic and non-organic materials that "bond" into chains of stuff termed "gunk". By disolving the bonds via lab enzymes or bacteria based they break down and to be flushed away ; relate to Tide, Cheer and dozens of other detergent products that use enzymes. All recommend a rinse cycle .
I am by no means an expert , from what I understand the trick within the formulas is to include enought detergent to allow the gunk to be washed away without leaving a residue. So it appears , rinsing is essential to the cleaning process.
With bacteria cleaning much of what has been mentioned also applies , with exception of detergents; there are none. The compounds left from digestion are water & C02. Nevertheless, a good strong rinse , steam or otherwise does appear to assist in removing whatever is left on the LP surface.
Most record enzyme products are sold with super-pure-type water for the rinsing phase. So, rinsing applies there as well, as in Walker products, to mention only one brand name. |
Stevieboy : Thank you for the encouragement. I did go to the web site. The page that opened did not carry a description or picture . No problem ,I did find one that opened to the Monster Product Line. I own a Monster Product similar in looks to the SC 20 (Baby Steamer) that works very well w/ the conical attachment. The SC 50 looks very interesting . Should the 50 put out a thin steam head, that you feel confortable directing ,it certianly may work , but I have no personal experience with that model-type. I think the 20 may be the one to purchase. Stevieboy, keep in touch. Thanks for the contribution. We look forward to more.
PS I also have a heavy duty floor model that works well around the home : Its is suited for home not LP cleaning. |
Stevieboy, Go for it , the Palson-Nilo has the appearence and the specs to qualify as a excellent Lp steamer. Try it with the conical unit. Now its OK to get Steamed ! All the best. |
Halcro & Thommas: I agree with both of you that fluids are an option ,in some, (maybe all?) instances.
In the former Thread I expressed that in my experience, homemade fluid brews(read very cheap) seemed to work equally as well as the hi-priced spreads. That statement cost me ; I know Martina & others fluid designers strongly disagree as they have the right , but experiences as yours reflect other options .
The exception maybe dirty used recordings, a little home brew never hurt anything or for that matter hi-priced record cleaning solutions I presently have on hand. I agree and will apply them only as an option not a requirement.
Happy Hanna(Da' Storm) to all living on the East Coast , or in the East generally. May she leave before landing in your World. |
Sonofjim, You were on my "respond to" list. My experiences are equall to yours , no problems. I recall one poster related a "thin" used never played LP may have warped in steaming, but they dropped off the old thread perhaps they felt they should have been played the LP to know its condition before steaming. Again, I have yet to damage a LP by steaming. S, did your "61" come with a charcole repro of BD inside the cover ? Thanks. |
Madfloyd : May I ask what brand of Steam Cleaner are you using and is it under warrenty ?
PS Hanna Talk: Lots of Wind & Rain to the North of me most power is out but I'm doing well in Cub Hill, MD (our lines underground , most trannies on ground) . |
Stevieboy : No problem. Welcome to the WorldWide Steam Cleaning Club. S, one "Q" do you have a good source for distilled or what is referred to a "Super-Water" ?? |
Sonofjim : I was surprised to find one in a discarded cover to be trashed. I have to locate my 61 & to determine its vintage. Thanks, the hunt is to be continued ... |
Madfloyd : Should that steam cleaner be the "Perfection" , it may well be defective ; Walgreens should accept it as a return , or for exchange.
According your description, that steam making machine isn't fuctioning properly. Please, consider another steaming unit to lessen any potential danger of a dangerious malfuction. Once they start to malfuction who knows where that will end. |
Madfloyd : I believe that the exception to using steam only are dirty LPs , I believe your description qualifies.
When I clean dirty LPs , I use steam, add a fluid record cleaner , lightly scrubb w/ brush and steam rinse, then dry (by air or micro cloth). Some steam posters report excellent results with a liquid rinse then drying. If any consensus exists its that : Rinses are OK to V. Good To Excellent!
Perhaps (by technique) or dumb luck but I haven't yet warped any LP thru cleaning. Perhaps, that is also because I inspect every LP using downward light and angeling the over-head light to disclose any surface irregularites before I buy. I've been doing that for so long that in a glance I discount 50-90% of what I suspect are good buys... Naa, just dumb luck. |
Stevieboy , A potential solution. Locate the cleanest/freshest water ,available , gently boil for 2-5 minutes , then cool. Using a funnel pour the cooled water into a clean glass container with a threaded lid. Store in a cool place. With an eye dropper, splash 2 or 3 drops of clear bleach into the water,give a quick shake. The bleach is to retard bacteria growth & will not affect steam cleaning (NMT 3 drops per Imperial Gallon).
This method passed to me by an audiophile mentor for record rinsing. I think it an acceptable subtitute until other water options are sourced. All the best. |
Stevieboy , My pleasure to assist you. I hope you source a reliable water supply , say a medical supply house or dry goods store. All the best. |
Madfloyd, Wait and wait a tad longer. I let my Steam Cleaner sit for 15-20 minutes , plugged and topped off w/ water before I start to steam. Othertimes less , or more. All the best. |
Nickiguy: Thanks for your support. Later this year or perhaps a little later, I will be posting some helpful hints to clean difficult LPs. So far these methods have been sucessful with a handful of recordings that resisted steam cleaning. Nickiguy, all the best. |
FYI : On Sunday, a "Professional" steam cleaner "exploded"(complete failure)in my Kitchen. No damage done to humans or the surroundings. For reasons currently unkmown, the unit exploded shortly after I left the room to answer a line-line phone call. This is a reminder, sometimes, steam cleaning units can fail.The explosion was contained in-itself & not a danger , just a lot of water on the foor. I shall to take the steamer to a repair house for details. Be assured it scared the S--- out of me. |
FYI : A local repair shop has expressed interest in attempting a repair. The unit has tamper-proof screws so the job is better left to someone that can work on a steamer. I am curious to learn what exactly failed and what that part was made of, plastic or metal. |
FYI: I know that most viewers and posters do not use the larger home steamers for record steaming. Nevertheless, this is my very first complete equipment failure since I started steaming , in my home or otherwise. I hope the cash outlay to learn the whys of this problem may translate to assist the few of you that do in-fact use the larger models to steam clean records as a few postings suggested. That is an open question & not easily answered. I can say the steam unit did not have many hours of useage. |
Sonofjim : I did view the Walker Wand . The "O" rings do concern me .
Some unanswered questions come to mind: What if a record already has a slight warp ? Will the wand scrape against the raised surfaces ? Do the "O" rings cause the LP to be unstable when revolving ? Will steaming w/ the "O" rings cause the LP to heat-up to the extent that warping is possible? The old addage "buyer-be-awaire" seems to apply at least to the "O" rings. As for this tweak , please advise me of your success or challenges , should you purchase.
Perhaps, an email to Mr. Walker might resolve the matter. Perhaps he has already thought this thru as far as steaming is concerned. I know he is awaire of steam cleaning because I personally informed him in a phone call several years ago.
As for the lead business , I prefer to follow the recommendations put out by Researchers @ Johns Hopkins regarding lead exposure, keeping that as matter of choice rather than discussion. See an old dog can learn new tricks. All the best. |
Headsnappin: Thanks.
Wand Owners: I would appreciate users comments to understand what improvement the wand & rings make. If your a steamer all the better.
Sonofjim : Is your understanding the same as Heads ?
Readers: Do you think it possible to re-use the VPI wand , put 2 O rings under the tube holder and achieve the same results as the Walker tweak? I guess the rings can be had for about a buck , once its understood what they are composed of . |
Readers: Excellent Thread/posting can now be found on the Forum for the Walker Vortex. More knowledgable because they are relating actual experiences. Worth the read. |
Joprras : The perceived loss of highs could be the result of "dirt" clinging to the record surface, "dirty" steam , improper steam cleaning methods or most likely records that need additional cleaning. Rarely, I have cleaned a Lp where gunk clinged to the grove requiring further steaming. This does not happened often but can happen.
As for the posting regarding a 6 hour difference between plays , I recall several articles in the late '70-80's in "Stereophile" that claimed recently cleaned or played LPs require a "rest" period of 2 hours or so for the vinyl grove to re-shape to pre-playing/cleaning condition. So, it not as if the phenom has not been remarked in print. |
FYI : Two months ago a steaming unit I was operating malfuctioned. The metal heating tank ruptured sending water & steam everywhere : Besides my surprize no actual harm done. I located a small appliance store that offered free estimates , dropping the steam unit off.Yesterday, I got a call that metal heating tank costs $220.00 , before installation ($50). The whole house cleaning system cost less than $100 ! Lesson learned , sometimes these steamers fail and are not worth the cost of repair. |
Readers: For those interested in steam cleaning , keep in mind that the method(s) , mechanics , materials , water and much , much more has been previously outlined in the now discontinued initial steam cleaning thread.
I have reclused myself from this thread. I am continuing research regarding record cleaning that I intend to publish in the future.
For Those New to Steaming : Not all steam cleaning units perform as well as others, and garmet units I have warned may actually warp a record. There are rational reasons for following a certian method , the use of record cleaning fluids ,as well as, other record cleaning machines , even the use of microcloth A over microcloth B . Anyone that believes that any steamer will do , any materal or methods is ok could find themselves in trouble.
As mentioned many times in the past thread , I follow a method and use products out of years of experience that produce positive results. For those that accepted the suggestions their learning curve was reduced and they reported excellent results.
As for the "vinyl smell" I was flamed to death over my concern(s) regarding mold release compounds and potential lead issues. Again, as was outlined in the past thread I don't recommend using the attachments , unless, they have been deep cleaned to remove those compounds that cause the smell ; the reasons are already outlined in the past thread.
I wish everyone well. When I have a book you will be the first to know. For those that want advice, contact me by email. I will respond as time permits.
Again my recommendation, read the former thread, lots of FYI buried there. |
R3w200 : It appears you have found not just a replacement but a upgrade to most other steam cleaners. I believe the variable steam control could bring LP steam cleaning to a new level , the continious refil of water is another bonus. R3w200, you may be on to something. Now for some R&D, namely buying a unit and putting it thru the drill. |
R3w2000: Thanks to you , I purchased a Mc1235 on-line at the Home Depot for $49.85 ; that price includes the price of the Mc 1235 , shipping & taxes. Home Depot indicates they have forwarded the unit by USPS. More on the Mc 1235 later.
I refuse to wade into the "lead" issue again but do offer this suggestion. The Home Depot sells lead detection kits.
The "Lead Check" contains two short "pencil" detectors with brushes that detects lead on surface home surfaces ; appliances , electrical cords , etc. For those that have the interest buy the kit.
I found the lead kit to be educational , almost as educational as a device I now use to determine if "live" electrical current is present in the walls and appliances.
For me it was vindication of my published position regarding some steaming units but moreover I was surprised to learn how many places lead can be present in a home. |
Ho72, Try Peak Battery water @ $3.00 gal; its an excellent product and is sold @ Pep Boys Auto Stores. I use it myself with excellent results because the water besides being distilled , has been filtered , demineralized and deionized. One suggestion, examine/shake the container to assure the product is not so old that mold has started to grow. In all the years I have been using Peak Battery Water I did have one "bad" gallon that I filtered & used around the home with no problems. |
Ho72, A couple of years ago I spent and enjoyable hour speaking to a customer rep for Peak Battery Water who explained in detail the process used to manufacture their water products. Peak Battery Water is exactly that; a highly refined water product made primarly for the Battery Industry that uses the water in the manufacture of of industral & car batteries. The Rep said,in his opinion Peak is an excellent low-cost water product due to exact testing they perform for the manufacturing industry. He stated that Peak Water Products are manufactured for & sold under many brand names , including Prestone. Therefore , should you locate any brand of Battery Water it most likely will perform equally to Peak because most likely that's who manufactured the product.
Ho72, in the past a Chemist and a Industrial Water Quality Specialist have forwarded detailed information on water issues that were posted on past threads.
I have personally spoken at length to a Soda Industry Specialist/Consulant that oversees the preperation water products for human consuption. These folks are in demand because ,in fact, they are experts on matters regarding the scientific use of, or industral manufacturing of, or human consumption of water products.
Some information they passed along: The US Government does not normally test & certify distilled water products. Therefore,its difficult to know if what we are buying is a clean distilled water product or something of lessor quality an/of poor quality control. That is unless one directly contacts the producer for assurances regarding product purity. Lab/medical water products are required by Law to be exactly whats printed on the label;therefore, there are extra costs accociated with manufacture & testing that are is passed on to the end user.
In summary , Peak-type products actually meet or exceed quality assurance requirements that Industry requires for manufacturing needs. In theory, we (the end user) buy a high quality product at a relatively low-cost thats already been certified for purity for Hi-end users. We are insidential product users and to me that's a good thing. Everybody else spent the money to assure we get a great product cheaply. I also mention, the chemist wrote , we are only making steam for cleaning purposes. He believes that for our purposes using any certified distilled water would achieve a clean, pure steam. He opined (as most steam cleaning manuals note)that using ordinary tap water is ok; however,the minerals in tap water will clog the steamer innards , shorting the units lifespan. That is a fact.
Rinsing is another matter . From emails I have read many steamers swear by the use of nerl water or better for rinsing purposes.
|
Readers,I recommend the McCulloch MC 1235 handheld steam Cleaner as the "Steaming Machine of the Year".
The 1235 is truly light-years ahead of all traditional water boilers. Its with 21th Century features, too many to outline here. I invite you to Google MC 1235, or purchase it from The Home Depot web site. Lightyears ahead that makes steam cleaning LPS far easier. About $48 US to your door & worth its weight in gold.
Ok,diamonds. |
Readers, I can onlt relate my experience with the MC1235 has been nothing short of every quality I want for a handheld record steam unit. The continous water re-fill , meaning you can refill without unpluging or cooling, the variable steam control (hi & Lo) provides options never before available for LP cleaning. Even the nozzels machined in brass surrounded by heatproof plastic give you three options all providing pinpoint accuracy & control. The unit works differently than the traditional water boilers currently available. The MC 1235 does not bring to boil the water in its holding tank(10oz.) . The water release trigger on the handel releases , injects a small precise shot of water into a micro-steaming tank that instantly creates a bloom of steam released 1-3 seconds later , lasting 3 seconds. The MC1235 does what water boilers can not, that is creating controlled measures of steam you control in intensity with a flip of a switch. For someone who fails to appreciate that process they could misunderstand that the trigger does not release steam as traditional water boilers . And lastly, the MC 1235 appears safer making steam only on demand.
As for quality control mine operated as advertised out of the box. I have contacted Top Innovations in the past . They always responded within a day & were helpful. As for Tvads post, It appears that the MC 1235 was either defective or failed to meet the requirements of some buyers.Such is life. The best to all.
Ho72, thank you. |
Readers, I have been surprised to learn that the MC 1235 has not been as well received as traditional water boiler vs. instant steam makers . What I over-reached upon was the notion that to the novice steamer & others they would feel greater confort using MC 1235. That has not been the case . The traditional water boilers work perfectly & while the MC 1235 takes steaming to a new level , that is not exactly a confort to many. I make this admission so that newbees to steaming understand that water boilers such as the Walgreens Steam cleaners are also suited to record steam cleaning. What's important is having a clean water source; proper technique, the use of record cleaning fluids ,and a RCM should own one. More to come from other posters I'm sure. |
Doak: The MC 1235 contains many innovations . The power; 1300 watts, 10oz. water capacity, the unit is a instant steam maker , unlike traditional water boilers that depend on boiling all its contents. The MC 1235 injects water into a micro-chamber that creates a bloom of steam that you can control using a hi-lo switch located on the handel.The only draw back is that you only press the water injection trigger once , wait 2 seconds for a 2-3 second bloom of steam then trigger again. Holding down the trigger for more that a second is not recommended, it will splurt a tad. Since the water tank is not under pressure it can be refilled at any time no cooling off period. The accessories are pretty much standard ;however, the nozzels are machined with brass inserts that are substancial & accurate. |
Doak "We clean a lot of records here. Anything that may slow us down that process would not be a welcome change". It would be helpful to know who you are , the number of records steamed per day & for what reason. Are you a reseller ? Is this a business ? |
Ho72 , The traditional water boilers do have a rightful place in steam cleaning records. As you may recall I have a slew of water boilers at home that are acceptable. My choice of the perfection was for a variety of reasons and I continue to feel it was one terrific value. I have a feeling that I'm a tad easier on the trigger. Even with the Perfection I rarely if ever have held a trigger down except for seconds at a time. I don't know why but thats the way I have always steam cleaned LPS. I my past life I was a Certified Handgun Instructor. Perhaps I squeese the trigger differently from that work. I gently squeese never pull using my wrist,hand-eye coordination to get the job done. I guess the MC 1235 fits my profile better. But I score it by performance and by that measure it has a place in my cleaning arsenal...(if you get my meaning).All the best. |
Doak : You are a significant reseller of LPS. The fact your are a reseller is testmony of the value of steam cleaning.
From what I gather it is almost a "factory" setting ; that is a "ton" of LPS in ,hopefully, a "ton" sold. I feel you are not using as clean a water supply as I would. The reason I say that is that it is a scientific fact using public water supplies always results in a break-down of the steaming unit. That NEVER occurs when water supplies recommend in the Thread(s) are added to the steamer.
I support the use of steaming LPS for resale and I'm glad you are doing such . My advice, use only traditional water boilers. Yours is a business , only water boilers will suffice the profit motive.
The are cheap and withstand abuse without imparting a significant problem to the LP. But, in the future be up front about who/what you are. You not in the same league as we comsumers. I'm sure you understand that & my meaning. I wish you sucess. |
Doak, Don't make yourself a stranger to the conversation. You are gaining valuable insite to the use of steaming. Any feedback that you wish to share is appreciated. The very best in business and health. |
Wr4, I would proceed with caution. 78's are made with different materials and subject to breaking. I do not steam my 1903 talking machine cyclinders and none of my friends with RCA Victrola Credenza's steam their 78's. Our ancient recordings are cleaned using super fine brushes & Disc Doctor products. |
Wr4 , You have a excellent point. My guess is they applied sota materials drawn from nature, no exclusive "human-made" material. Just as Edison & his team did. I own a few very early cylinders, they are 99 percent'ish beeswax. But do try the Disc Doctor products , the inventor is a 78 collector. And yes, no one had the household steamers until 15-ish years ago-We are far better off in more ways than they. |
Steviboy: Good to know the problem has been resolved. Please keep in mind that the condition of the LP determines the outcome. Records that suffer from playback problems associated with manufacture or rought treatment most likely will always have "pops an' clicks". "Dirty" recordings are just that filled with dirt/dust of all sorts. A record cleaning fluid is strongly recommended to bring the dirt to the surface so the steam can wisk the debris off. I know that you are facing challenges finding local resources , do the best you can with what is available. The very best to you. |
Steveiboy, You are doing very well. |
Thanks Mike. Whenever you have the time, please pick up a copy of Jim Smith's "Get Better Sound", a great read. Enjoy the 1st evening of Spring. Charlie |
Merlinman : The MC 1235 manual relates that it operates on different mode of steam making. The MC 1235 is not a traditional water boiler. The video you viewed was made using a traditional water boiler that does not apply exactly to the MC 1235.
The Perfection Steamer is a traditional water boiler that operates pretty much as most of them do , but does it as well or better than most. The shark are also water boilers . I have used them and they are certianly up to the task.
On the MC 1235 the trigger operates as a water injecter shooting a small unit of water into a micro heater that creates the steam seconds later. The manual that came with mine indicates continued trigger pulling causes the unit to malfuction sputering & spitting.
Your experience relates that for most folks the traditional water boilers are the way to go. It does appear the water boilers are easier to operate for most users.
As for the MC1235 if at all possible request a refund from where it was purchased. |
