Good to know about. Thanks.
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I just did an a/b comparison using Diana Krall Live in Paris comparing the Squeezebox with mods feeding ripped redbook FLAC vs. my BelCanto CD1 into AES/EBU transport using the same CD (used to rip the FLAC files into the SB) and I actually think I prefer the overall sound of the Squeezebox. The bass seems a bit deeper and the highs a bit smoother. Diana's sybillants seem a bit more strident straight from the CD. I am going to try a few more comparisons but I sure like what I am hearing.
Very cool, thanks a lot.
If anyone is looking for a sample to try out there is one on the Linn records site:
I was curious if my Metrum DAC would accept a 24/192 signal, when I tried the test file before the mod the DAC was silent and my Squeezebox displayed "sampling rate not supported". After the mod, the DAC played the file no problem so I assume that it in fact plays 24/192.
Thanks for the link to the test file, Audiojedi. My DAC played it but with skips which confirms that my DAC3 won't play 192 without an oscillator upgrade, which I am now seriously considering. Glad your mod worked for you! How do you like the Metrum and what output are you using (S/PDIF or USB?) Swanny
Loving the Metrum, I'm sure you can do better by spending a lot more but it's killer for the cash. Best digital I've had in my system by quite a bit, really quite smooth(after running in) but punchy and detailed as well. It strikes a good balance IMHO.
Running the coax SPDIF out of the Touch, works just fine far as I'm concerned.
If I find any good free 24/192 files I'll report back.
I'd like to know everyone's thoughts on any overall changes to sound quality, even for redbook files, on the modded Touch vs. the previous standard output. Glad this is working for everyone. It's really an ingenious bit of coding. Apparently the developer stripped out a layer of code that was there before in the standard Logitech code. Occam's Razor may apply--the simpler the better. Ncarv, I saw on your system page that you are running other mods on your Touch already. Do you recommend those changes too? Enjoy, guys.
I had installed this app on my SBT and played a couple of 24/192 Flac files that I downloaded from HDTracks. My excitement impressed me more than my ears, so I imagined I had better sound. Guilty as charged!
After further listening, I found the 192 files to be inferior to my 96 files. So, closed or flat sounding with annoying low-level distortion, and no air in the form of information between instruments. My 96 files are wide open and much more involving in comparison.
There's a recent thread on this where John from Benchmark explains what's going on. The Enhanced Digital Output App does not seem to affect the SQ of my 96 files, so I'll probably keep it installed for now.
Some have suggested that the Digital Mod also improved the digital coaxial output on 16/44hz recordings.
So, I had to try it. But for me with the digital mod and 16/44hz recordings using my coaxial out, I thought that the recordings sounded more "digital". That is, with sharp unpleasant highs and a flat image.
I deleted the mod.
Ozzy, I guess the success of the mod depends on the interaction among all the components in the chain. You are using the Cary DAC in your 306 player? I see you have been trying different digital cables and are using a silver Morrow cable. Any chance that is responsible for your issues? Just wondering. I know my DAC3 is less sensitive to different digital cables I have tried. I have settled on a HAVE Canare 75 ohm BNC for my cable and really like the sound quality. Very smooth, clear, good bass and highs and soundstaging. I see you mentioned liking that on your system page.
Great thread! My DAC is limited to 96/24, and since the SBT is too, I figured that was all the excuse I needed to avoid 192 files. Until I read the Benchmark comments, I was thinking I was out of excuses! I would think that what Benchmark is claiming ought to be front-page news in the hi-fi and digital audio worlds, no?
I suspect in general that hi res format potential, relevant or not, is ahead of the technology needed to execute accurately and correctly. Hi res is still early on the tech maturity scale. It will get better over time for sure but for now i am very skeptical of claimed better sound on a regular basis. All bets are off still in my eyes regarding hi resvalue at present. It is the next frontier though for those looking for adventure!
Bondmap - Read my previous comment from the other thread:
"Mofimadness - What John Siau is talking about is update rate of D/A IC. This IC (AD1853) is updated in Benchmark DAC1 from asynchronous rate converter (AD1896) at about 110kHz independently of input rate. The reason for that is not only 20dB better filtering but also lower THD of the DAC at 110kHz compare to THD at max update rate of AD1853=192kHz. Penalty for that is bandwidth of 55kHz vs possible 96kHz but there is very little harmonic info above 55kHz. It all has nothing to do with input rate. He is also talking about oversampling rates in general terms since DAC1 is not oversampling but upsampling meaning that rate is not even multiple anyway. In case of Benchmark DAC1 it is in order of million times upsample then downsample to 110kHz thanks to mathematical manipulations.
In general 192kHz carries more info than 96kHz but I doubt you can hear any improvement."
My Squeezebox Touch sounds great. I have had the Boulder Mods along with the power supply and have been happily playing it for some time.
But, with the output Mods on this thread it was a downgrade for 16/44. This Mod is perhaps tweaked toward improvement with 24/192 sources.
My Dac, yes a Cary 306 SACD does not do 24/192hz.
Kennythekey, With the Boudler Digital mods the Touch comes very close to playing Cd's through my Cary 306.
The Boulder Power Supply was almost as much of an improvement as the Mods. Then of course I had to add a SR power cable to make it complete.
I have heard good and bad about Welbourne, but I never compared the power supply to the Boulder.
Ozzy, Good to hear. The current state of my SBT sounded as good as my old but once excellent Theta Data Basic II CD Transport. I will not be purchasing a new CD player/transport, so my goal is to rip all of my CDs. IMO - the 96/24 files sound better, if not as smooth.
Someday, I will get a non-PC-based music server to replace my SBT when the industry has hopefully settled down more in these markets. Who knows?
I do want to make improvements to the SBT, but up to a point. I too have heard mixed things about the Welbourne PS, but there seems to be that for everything. Bolder Cable recommends three power supplies on their website and one, the Jerome Industries doesn't seem to be available. Bolder's own Standard PS is $600, and I won't spend that. For me, the Welbourne PS seemed reasonable on sale, so I will later provide my thoughts after I compare it to the wall-wart.
Please keep us posted as soon as you get a grasp on the Welborne Power Supply. I have a Squeezebox Duet and have been thinking about this PS. I have read that it really only affects the analog section and I am not using the analog outs, just the digital output, into the EE MiniMax DAC. I'd like to hear your thoughts once you get it.
I only use the digital out (SBT) as well, so we'll see how it (Welborne PS) fairs. Nice Audiocircle review, however.
Has anyone become familiar with the term Software Jitter? The main culprit appears to be power supplies used with playback sources. At least, I read a short article in the latest P.S. Audio Newsletter.
Anyway, I will be happy to lose the wall-wart.
Are you saying that Spotify streams at 24/192? Back when I tried it, it was very limited. I don't remember exactly what it was, but I do know that I stuck with MOG, which had the best sound quality for me. MOG streams at 320kbps, which is high for a streaming service, or so I thought.
Unless I'm wrong, your question is moot.
I was, however, able to stream 24/192 files to my Squeezebox from my server. The mod does work, but be aware that it also changes the characteristics of the music. These "mods" do alter the stock configuration of interrupt priorities for a lot of the processes being handled by the Squeezebox while it's playing music.
Try it and see if you like it. If you have either a bunch of 24/192 files that you want to play or you want to be able to use the USB connection, then the mod may be just what you're looking for.
Thanks,for that. The files I can download onto my ipod from Spotify are at lease 24/192, but my ipod doc will only output a 44.1 signal to my DAC (this is all the iPod is capable of).
Did your SBT output the 320kbps MOG stream to your dac (and your dac recodnize it?)? I tried installing the MOG app for my SBT, but it does not seems to be working. I'm wondering now if, because Logitech discontinued the SBT, the vendors are abandoning the platform.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I just went and checked Spotify out again, after reading your post. I don't see anything that would indicate that you can download 24/192 files from Spotify. If I am wrong, please let us know. Getting hi res music for less than ~$25 an album would be a blessing. All I'm seeing is that Spotify will stream at 320kbps for its Premium members.
I any case, I've had no problems streaming anything through my SBT, whether it was MOG, Spotify or any other service that I tried.
I don't think that anyone is going to abandon the idea of streaming music because the touch was discontinued.
Thanks, guys. I may in indeed be confused. Here's the prob I'm having. I installed Enhanced Digital output...and then stream Spotify, but the reading on my DAC only shows 44.1 (I am a Spotify Premium member). If I stream from my TV, it shows 48k (this is all the optical from the TV is capable of passing, I believe).
Tonyangel, how did you configure the SBT to stream Spotify at a higher rate? Any Internet radio channels on the SBT that will stream at the higher rates? I'm tying to see my DAC tell me it's receiving a high bit rate signal..!!
I did NOT configure SBT to stream any service at a higher bit rate. That is the point that I'm trying to make. The highest bit rate that I am aware of is 16 bit at 320kbps at best from any streaming service.
I can't begin to guess why your DAC is showing a 44.1khz incoming stream from Spotify. The best that Spotify does is 320kbps.
What you essentially said in your above post is that you are getting a CD quality stream from Spotify. Unless I am mistaken, this cannot be.
Sorry, I think that I what I said above may have been unclear. What I'm trying to say, in short, is that if you are putting yourself through all of this, modding your SBT and such, with the intention of streaming high res from a streaming service, you are wasting your time.
The only way that you are going to realize the benefits of the mod to the SBT is if you have hi res files of greater than 16 bit words lengths and greater than a 96khz sampling rates. The only convenient way that I know of to come by these files is to buy them from a service such as HDTracks at a cost of ~$18 per album.
Of course, if you know something that I don't and there is a streaming service that streams 26/96 and greater files, please share. My wallet will thank you.