I replaced my ML Odysseys with Quad 2905s with great results. Nothing wrong with the MLs except that the ESLs are in a different league. If room size is a constraint, the 2805s are more than worth a audition.
As a prodigy owner i feel that it is a shame that you felt a need to sell them I assume that you liked them therefore I would suggest that you look into others from ML I heard Summits in a pretty small room and was quite impressed but not enough to give up my Prodigy's You may try posting your question on the ML users site.
If you read my post, I didn't feel a need to sell them.
I have NO room, I have owned the other Logans in the past and have heard the New Summits and to be honest about I wasnt very impressed with it both times I heard, at least not compared to the Prodigys.
If I had the room I would have kept them but I dont.
I need to move on and get something room friendly.
This is exactly the price range I will be shopping in next and for a small room too. My two top choices are both dynamic loudspeakers and that may not be your cup of proverbial tea but...
I really like the Merlin VSM-MX and the Acoustic Zen Adagio. You will definatlely want to audition these before purchasing. Especially considering the quality of the speaker they have to replace. The Prodigy is a big shoe to fill.
Please give the Summits another chance ;--) The ones you heard may 1.) not have been broken in and/or 2.) been driven with a SS amp. They have much cleaner bass than the Prodigys with their built-in SS amps, and if you drive them (only the panels) with the Wolcotts, they should be fantastic.
Because the panels are now computer/mechanically stretched (tighter) they take a bit longer to break in, and even though smaller than the Prodigy panel, put out the same SPL per watt.
Additionally, ML now makes two slightly smaller models (than the Summit) the Vantage and the Vista. They are the same physically but the Vantage has additional bass contour controls.
I am in a small room and thus listen at lower volumes in the nearfield . I have found quite good success with Reference 3 a Di Capo i's , a standmount speaker . I am assuming that you will retain your tube amps , as these speakers really like tubes . Depending on the size of your room , you would be able to move up the line as per your budget constraints .
Now , given that , I have been on a search for a speaker that would give me the stat/panel sound in a small room . The closest that I have found is the new Beryllium tweeter technology .
I have heard the JM Lab version in the Micro Utopia Be which is a standmount . They also offer other versions including the Diva Utopia Be which is a floor stander designed for small rooms . The Micro is in your budget but I am not sure about the Diva . I am talking about new prices as these don't come up used too often .
A less expensive alternative is the new Be Ushers in the Dancer series . They are also using the Beryllium technology in their tweeters and I have heard that they are now offering a speaker with a midrange Beryllium driver as well . Caveat , I have not heard these yet as they are pretty new . The Usher Dancer line comes in at about half price as compared to the JM Labs Utopia .
Good luck and please keep me posted on what you find .
Sucks you don't have the room for the 'stats
For a smaller space, you're good to want to look into a good pair of monitors. For $5 - $7k you can get some of the best.
Some good choices would be:
* Dynaudio C1
* Sonus Faber Electa Amator (1 or 2)
* Verity Parsifal monitors
* micro utopias
You're going to miss the prodigys bass with one of these... but pick up a used rel strata 3 for $700 or something and you will be in business
Everybody has a lot of great suggestions. It really shows that I need to get out a listen to more speakers.
I can comment on running without a preamp using box type speakers. I currently use a RA Opus 21 direct to a Pass amp to Soliloquy two-way floorstanders in a small room. No preamp at all.
It is very satisfying. It was, and to some degree still is, a bit bass heavy (Due to the small room size methinks). I may not have the most critical ear. I somewhat like a little bass oomph. I would surmise that any difficulties from running Preampless would be independent of the speaker type . But, I could be wrong. The more experienced A'goners may be of more assistance.
I went through a similar process... I owned Prodigy's (and absolutely loved them (and no, the Summits aren't close IMHO)). I had to sell becouse I couldn't continue to run a monster tube amp in the Texas summer (and the damn thing kept blowing up). And, I can't even go there when anyone mentions SS... I have owned SL3's, Aeons, Maggies, etc. and could not find a box speaker that I could get used to.
I was visiting a guy who had a pair of Koechel (sp?) horns and was smitten, and I finally ended up with a pair of Avantgarde Duo's. They have the speed, air... yada yada that the panels do but they only take 6 watts or so to drive. They are a lot more dynamic and have better PRAT than the ML's. They jump!!! Big time. I think they play more different kinds of music well than the Logan's, but aren't as "pretty" sounding on SOME stuff. I still miss the holography thing that the Prodigy's can pull off from time to time too.
I don't know if your room is big enough for Avantgardes (you haven't given the dimensions)and they are a different take on things comparitively speaking. Of course you would need to change out your amps too... SET's are amazing BTW. You might want to check 'em tho.
I have thought about the Avant-gardes but they are out of my price range and I also believe they need room just like the Prodigy's did.
the room size is 12x18 so I am looking for something I can keep pretty close to the back wall. My listing chair will be about 12 to 14' from the speakers
Thanks again all the help
During CES, it became clear to me that price has nothing to do with satisfaction when it comes to loudspeakers. I heard several speakers below $2000/pair that were much more musical than 90% of the rest of the speakers I heard.
The point being that restricting yourself to a price range because you believe you will find a better speaker in a higher price range than in a lower price range may be the wrong approach.
A short list to consider if you can get beyond the concept of spending less: Silverline SR 17.5, Silverline Prelude, Totem Arro, Totem Sttaf, ACI Sapphire XL (sold direct with 30 day in-home audition), Harmonic Precision Caravelle (these are not inexpensive, but have great user reviews and also available with in-home audition). Silverline has a new $650/pair mini monitor that had everyone in the room laughing in disbelief at how good they sounded.
Placement is a large consideration in your room. For example, restricting placement close to the rear wall eliminates many floorstanders due to the tendency for the rear wall to overemphasize bass. The smaller floorstanders from Totem and Silverline sound terrific, and they benefit from placement near a rear wall.
Also, consider the placement of your listening chair. You want to sit in a position that puts you out of a node, otherwise you will hear problems similar to those realized by improper speaker placement.
I am very open to spending less in fact that's what I want to do.
All I am saying is that I will not go beyond my limit that's all.
In fact I bought a pair of Von Schweikert VR4 original the other day for a 1000.00
I may keep these?? I haven't been able to really listen to them as I need another set of speaker wires.
I have been told that the Von Schweikert speakers can be placed up to the back wall because of there design.
As far as the listing position that was just a general number may be further maybe closer??
That all depends on what I end up using for speakers.
Your also right about some lower priced speakers sounding great.
I think some of the best rooms I heard the past 2 years at the Rocky Mountain audio fest were speakers I either have never heard about or did hear about but kinda blew them off in the past because of the very low price tag and them.
I will freely admit that in the past I have done that.
I figured if it had a low price it couldn't be good.
Going to all the Audio shows changed that.
So again I am not stuck in a certain price tag I just will not go over my budget that's all.
I probably shouldn't have said between this and that amount.
I have been told that the Von Schweikert speakers can be placed up to the back wall because of there design.
That's not correct according to what I have read, and my own experience with VR4. I believe you will experience some significant bass boom and midbass hump placing VR4 near the rear wall, but only trying it and listening will tell. They should sound very good with the Wolcott/Wadia combo.
The VR1 monitors can be placed near a rear wall. Doing so helps their bass response.
This was on there web site
Our hybrid bass loading system utilizes a 7" wide flared vent, front-mounted to allow close placement to a wall in small rooms without boom or coloration. Unquestionably the most impressive and dynamic 20Hz bass system available!
Thats for the new MKII so yea it may not work but that is what i was refering too.
Does this refer to the VR4Jr MK II or the VR4 Sr MK II, or a different model than either?
If the quote refers to one of the recent VR4 models, then it is commenting on a speaker that is completely different than the VR4 you own.
My VR4 Gen III HSE could never be placed near a rear wall. Even out into the room 2 feet, they have prodigious bass. Frankly, they should be out into the room even further than two feet, but like you, I simply don't have the space to allow it.
I am getting more and more confused people.
I listen to allot of rock Godsmack on so on I love Blues,Jazz Classic rock and so on.
I will run Wolcott tube mono's Wadia 581, Kubala Emotion cables, Ect
Room size again is 12x18
I loved the Prodigy's sound.I don't want the smaller Logan's once you have the Prodigy's to me the other just don't cut it.
that's my opinion and not intened to opened anyone with other Martin Logan speakers.
I have a small room and don't want to give up the big soundstage I had but I know I have to give up something.
I need help.
In smaller rooms, or where one must place the speaker close to a rear wall or a corner, I would recommend the Gradient Revolution. A great speaker designed specifically for such situations. They will give you some of that openness and clarity that you, as an owner of electrostatics, would appreciate a lot.
You can run a sub using a pair of Speaker Level Converters available from ACI. You connect the positive and negative leads of the converters to the speaker taps on your Wolcotts, and then you connect the RCA ends of the converters to the line level inputs of the subwoofer. Volume is controlled from your Wadia just like normal.
Depending on the distance of the sub from your amps, you will also need appropriate length RCA interconnects (you don't need expensive ICs for the sub), and female RCA>RCA connectors. All these are available from ACI.