Haven't heard the Ushers you mention. But I can say that Salon 2s are far from non-dynamic, especially if you pair them with fast, high-current amplifiers that can keep up with them. Their soundstaging is also excellent and they have a large sweet spot.
At dealers they are often paired with amps from Harman stablemate Levinson. That pairing sounds great on acoustic or small combo material, but IMO is not as well suited for "big" music like orchestral works or rock with large dynamic swings. |
I used to own the big Be-10s! Loved them. What is the your room size? I felt that the Focals sounded similar in terms of clarity and attack. |
I would rather listen to Bose cubes than Usher BE, something about them that makes my ears hurt. Revel Salon 2 are polar opposite and a fine sounding speaker that I could listen to forever. |
Thanks. The room size is 16*18*15(ceilings). I know it may be a little small for the 20s but maybe the ceiling can compensate.. |
I heard some big Ushers at a show some years back and was also very impressed. In terms of imaging the speakers they reminded me most of was Joseph Audio, but I can't speak to how they compare on the other parameters you mention. JA speakers sound very natural to me, but not sure if they have the jump factor, etc. you're looking for or not. Certainly worth a look imo.
In terms of dynamics and jump factor I might take a look at some PMC speakers. I think that powerful dome midrange driver might excel in that area, and from what I've read they image quite well too. The Evolution Acoustics MMMicroOne might be an interesting option too. Best of luck. |
Thanks. I've heard good things about PMC. Also- The Evolution Acoustics MMMicro seems to be making quite a name but its just difficult to find a dealer even in New York, but worth a shot. Maybe I'll also give the Revels another listen |
Hi everyone,
I own a pair of BE-10 and i can't find anything that can compare to it! Truing to find one for less is impossible.
Revel is overpriced for a non-interesting result. Comparing a BE-10 to the SALON is not fair for the revel...
The BE-10 is very transparent and the result can be really different considering the matching electronics and cables. I heard the BE-10 with PLINIUS mono blocks during the Munich high-end salon and it was pretty bad. The sound was too forward and flat due to the non musical PLINIUS system.
I use my BE-10 with MUSIC CULTURE electronics and it's quite amazing. My wires are ACROLINK, ANALYSIS PLUS (i'll upgrade to TARALABS OMEGA soon). The evidence is so clear to ears that you just go deeper into music.
I know the whole USHER range. BE-10 can only be compete by itself. If there is not many BE-10 on the second hand market, it should be the sign that nobody want to change it.
I compared the CP-8571 to the SASHA 3 and even at this price range, the USHER was superior in every way.
I think you've better stay in USHER AUDIO brand and try to find something at you're price range. The CP-6311 is an amazing low priced speaker cause it's very musical. Not the most detailed or sharp but music is very emotional with it. |
What about Merlin;have you had a chance to listen to them? |
"The sound was too forward and flat due to the non musical PLINIUS system."
You do realize that the Plinius amps you say you heard provide peak current of 50 amps (as opposed to the Music Culture's 20 amps)?
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Sammisra, check out Marten Django XL. I had Ushers 8571 mk II a while ago - not bad for the money, but nothing special, having them, I always felt disconnect between midrange, highs and lows and they are very heavy.
The Martens Django XL in my house bested Ushers, Reference Grand Vienna, Sonus Faber Elipsa SE.
The only other speaker I liked a lot besides Martens in my system is Eaglston Andra II, still regret trading them. |
10 and 20 are 2 of the worst speakers on the market
Go fish................... |
First you have to undestand an be aware of the properties of your Rotel. Rotel is a 2-dimensional brand. It has only a little depth. For a deep and wide stage you need an amp which can do this. Rotel does not have these skills. All amps I test if they can give a 2 or 3-dimensional image. For me it is easy as 1 and 1 is 2. |
Wc65mustang: Explain further please |
Bol972's comments may be a tad hard to digest at times but I concur.
The Rotel wont do justice to the "somewhat beryllium" tweeters. Don't get me wrong, the Ushers sound very good even with a scandalous less than pure Be tweeter.
Woofers are hard to deal with. Like the Alto Utopia.
Can sound nasal with flabby bassif not driven right. |
I hope people will open there eyes and ears. People have to learn to understand better what the properties/talents are of the stuff they own. I am not here to provoke. In the 15 years I am in this business I saw how often and easy people make misstakes cause of lack in knowledge in audio. |
@P59teitel : i do know the differences between those amps but it didn't explain why it was so flat? Do you imply that the PLINIUS should drive speakers with too much depth to be good??? :))
@Denon1: I'm quite surprise on your impression on the CP-8571II? Dc d'apollito is behind every USHER AUDIO speakers and his work on phasis is flawless.
I don't know your electronics but if you had this impression on CP-8571, the Martens are probably messy enough to melt all frequencies together... |
@P59teitel : i do know the differences between those amps but it didn't explain why it was so flat? Do you imply that the PLINIUS should drive speakers with too much depth to be good??? :))
@Denon1: I'm quite surprise on your impression on the CP-8571II? Dc d'apollito is behind every USHER AUDIO speakers and his work on phasis is flawless.
I don't know your electronics but if you had this impression on CP-8571, the Martens are probably messy enough to melt all frequencies together... |
ROTEL is probably not the best Hifi brand on the market but it depends if you're talking about power amps, preamps, CD player... and it will also depend of the model, like in every brand on the market. Sometimes it's great on some models. Sometimes it's bad...
The ROTEL power amps are not so bad for the asking price. If you use a hybrid system with tube preamp and ROTEL power amp, you can be surprise.
About the USHER DMD tweeter, i'm still surprise when someone always write about the Beryllium percentage inside it ?! For the record, the DMD is no longer a Beryllium tweeter... Nevertheless, how can you measure the quality of a driver on the percentage of Beryllium inside it ?
USHER is probably the best brand on the market today for many reasons :
1 - They produce and develop their own drivers (DMD tweeter, Beryllium medium)
2 - They use the skills of dc d'apollito, M. Ritchie and 40 years of experience.
3 - The asking price is way below the competition for a better result.
I'm a professional for 20 years and i was always amazed how people can buy only on reputation or ego. When it comes to real sound, it's not an easy task to find something really emotional!
Many brands offer artificial highs (headache after 1 hour of listening), emphasis medium (majority), boomy low frequencies or no bass at all. USHER was a real slap when i discover the brand during an Hifi show. From the S-520 to the D-3, it's always perfectly in phase and a real deal for the price. And it makes music, not only frequencies.
MARTEN for example use a ceramic driver. It's too stiff to let music flow but great on transients. It depends what you like to ear : the sniffing man on the back of the sound stage or the emotion of the music.
And "knowing audio" doesn't mean a thing. Knowing technic and drivers are better informations to evaluate a speaker. |
By "flat" I thought you meant non-dynamic. Do you mean something else? |
Dynamic with no-control is probably the worst an amplifier can make!
Power is one thing, control of power is a complete different story. Many amplifier shows dynamic in one single wave (flat), some other throw the music in the face (forward). Rare are amplifiers with articulate dynamics that show how every instrument has his own life. I really think is the heart of a great Hifi system.
In my life, the only cheap brand that showed an incredible value for the price was MAGNUM (not Magnum dynalab), a small english brand now closed.
A rapid list of great amplifiers in order of price for me :
- NVA (English) : not the greatest neutrality but so vivid and enjoyable to listen to!
- TSAKIRIDIS Devices (Greece) : Tube amps phenomenal for the price!
- EXPOSURE : Not all the models are equally good.
- ODYSSEY : depending on models
- NAIM (english) : This brand is a closed sister of NVA...
- SYMPHONIC LINE (German) : expensive but very good
- MUSIC CULTURE (German): Extremely musical, fluid but even dynamic |
I found the Plinius SB-301 I had in my system to have reasonable control along with good macro-dynamics. And it was a bass monster - low but tight. Where it fell a little short compared to better - and usually quite a bit more expensive - amps was in micro-dynamics and a bit of a rolled-off top end. But it will drive just about any load and holds its own in its price range.
"Rare are amplifiers with articulate dynamics that show how every instrument has his own life. I really think is the heart of a great Hifi system."
If by "articulate dynamics" you mean micro-dynamics then we agree that is very important.
"- SYMPHONIC LINE (German) : expensive but very good"
Indeed. Look at my system page. :)
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I found the Plinius SB-301 I had in my system to have reasonable control along with good macro-dynamics. And it was a bass monster - low but tight. Where it fell a little short compared to better - and usually quite a bit more expensive - amps was in micro-dynamics and a bit of a rolled-off top end. But it will drive just about any load and holds its own in its price range.
"Rare are amplifiers with articulate dynamics that show how every instrument has his own life. I really think is the heart of a great Hifi system."
If by "articulate dynamics" you mean micro-dynamics then we agree that is very important.
"- SYMPHONIC LINE (German) : expensive but very good"
Indeed. Look at my system page. :)
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@P59teitel : I think PLINIUS Amps can find his way on "hard to drive" speakers like old BW 800 serie or some MAGICO and WILSON AUDIO. On BE-10 (easiest to drive), it was too much for a bad result. Anyway it was not really emotional kind of amps, just a powerful SS with no subtilities.
SYMPHONIC LINE is really great amps, from the starter to the high-end serie. It seems like you know Naturalness in Hifi...Cheers! |
Bump, happy New year all it's nearly 2019 and I'm about to grab a pair of usher be20 DMD for my 18+27+7 listening room please don't tell me the room is too small. , I've been dealing with a bass null that's leading me to the biggest boxes I can fit in order to get reasonable bass output. But it can't be mud.
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Hey Steve. Happy New Year. One suggestion I might make is the Shelby-Kroll monitor and sub set up. I noticed over on usaudiomart that the designer has some cabinets and drivers that he is building out for folks as they specify. The midrange and tweeter drivers are ceramic; not sure about the sub driver. May be easier to make work in your room. Good luck. |
A 1.25 inch tweeter with no waveguide crossed over a 3.5KHz...well, look for a speaker with poor dispersion. |
These guys are huge, as big and fat as the salon 1. I don't have them on the plinths yet, that will be a task for tomorrow. My amp isn't warmed up yet but first impressions are positive. Not better or worse, encouraging. |
I don't use subs for stereo anymore. I tried in the past and never could get the sound musical, in fact all I did was inch speakers around without ever enjoying the music. I'll make it work with 2 speakers or sell the lot and buy a nice pair of cans! |
Lucky day. A pair of BE-10's just listed.
Listing ID: lis9a143
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All of my Usher clients move up to Rosso Fiorentino. It's an obvious move but comparable models are much more expensive, albeit well worth the difference. |
these be20 dmd's are the best sounding speakers i've had in my room and i've had several. to busy listening to do a write up but anybody with an opportunity to hear these should. |
I’m looking to buy a pair of usher BE20 any recommendation? |
Use the spikes! Once you get them placed screw the spikes into the plinth and be amazed at how much the bass improves. Excellent speakers. |
I have a friend with Usher Be20s so know them pretty well.To me some of the Focal speakers have a similar sound.The 1038Be springs to mind as having a similarly big,smooth,open sort of sound .The Ushers are incredibly cable fussy.Get the cabling wrong and they will not sound right at all.
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The thing about Usher speakers is that they seem to be so music friendly. Every show I'd attended that had an "Usher" room had an exceptional sound. Not a show winner but really nice. Focal rooms seemed to be fussier and in fairness, hotel rooms being what they are, it's not easy to get a system to sing well. I own the Usher Tower XL's which are similar to other Usher speakers featuring the DMD tweeter, Eaton wooofer and Ushers midrange paper driver.
These speakers have never put a note out of place. Early on I thought there was a slight disconnect between the woofer and midrange/tweet (different cabinets). I upgraded all of the cross-over components and wire including binding posts. Totally seamless now. These speakers are simply brilliant. Always a joy to listen to with a wide variety of music.
I've run them with BMC S1 amp, Usher 1.5, Lindemann Musicbook 55, and now the Nord NC1200 signature. Friendly with all those amps.
Wife wants the Usher Grand Towers. Ouch. Sorry, a bit off topic. |
Had the Usher BE-10 for the past 10yrs along with Emm Labs & Pass Labs gear. The room is also quite well prepped (40sqm room) and speakers + listening position close to ideal. The sound is very well balanced, musical and involving. I don’t think they can be beaten by anything else at their price. However, there is an area where I would look for improvement. I think the dome BE midrange is very fast but the Eton driver falls a bit behind in this area. I would say a better and much more expensive speaker should have 2-3 7-8” mid-bass drivers to fill in the gap.
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I revived this thread a few years ago, and ended up reselling the be20 dmd’s to feed the addiction. The huge woofers to a 5’’ mid require some care in placement and toe in, but I have no complaints with their sound and while there are wire and xover upgrades available for the speakers it isn’t necessary. The be 10 is probably big enough for most rooms.
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Hello: a smaller version of Ushers
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@steve59 What did u replace the Ushers with, and what are the improvements?
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I always thought meridian dsp 8000's were the ultimate. A pair of dsp 8000.2 came up about 4 hours away I made an offer on and after some negotiating I bought them. I still try out speakers if I think I can resell them for the price i'm paying for them. That said I've tried the Vienna acoustic strauss, persona 7f and currently kef blade since selling the be20's and buying the M's. The persona's might have the best bass i've ever heard from a pair of passive speakers, but they really need special care to sound natural. Ther Blades are similar to Usher in tone, but the midbass is more prominent and the soundstage is on another level. I can't afford to keep both the blades and big meridians once I retire, My hegel h360 was the source for all the speakers.
Soix, you see I don't sell a pair because I don't like them so much as I want to hear as many as I can.
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