Speakers near fireplace


I’m moving and in the new house it seems the best speaker position would be to have them on each side of the fireplace. They’re Vandersteen 2CE Signatures. I want to put them about a foot or so to the right/left of the fireplace and about 1-1/2 feet in front of the wall with the fireplace.

There are glass doors on the fireplace but I’m thinking of replacing that with a screen.

I would plan on putting the amp, etc. further to one side of the left speaker. The only real problem I see is that there will be a cable running across the floor (in front of the fireplace) to the right speaker. That and I will have one speaker close to the amp. In the past my rig was basically in the middle of both speakers, what’s the best way to handle 12’ of cable with only 2-3 feet needed on the one side?
jetson
I have the same issue as you. First, I ran the cable under the floor/house so there would be no cable visible between the speakers. My wife did not want to see the wire. Used nice wall plates that the cable passed through both going down and coming back up. The long cable ended up being 20 feet long. My shorter cable is 7 feet long. No need for both cables to be the same exact lenght. I used a nice 10 gauge speaker cable that I manufacture and sell and my system sounds wonderful. No worries about uneven cable lenght. I cannot hear the difference between equal lengths and my current set up. I have done the listening tests. No difference at all.

Perhaps you could do something like this? It would be nice if the length differences were minimized as much as is possible.

You can view my system under virtual systems here.  
1+ grannyring
I did something very sumular to the above post and it wored out very well.
When I had Vandersteen 2CE Sig speakers, one of the 8 inch woofer surrounds (rubber) came unglued from the cone so I sent it back to Vandersteen for repair (out of warranty).  When I got the new woofer back, there was a note in the box from Richard Vandersteen stating that the surround separated because the speaker must have been too close to the baseboard heat.  I would think hard about putting them near the fireplace for this very reason. 
Thanks Grannyring and lak. I'll have to check on whether the landlord will allow me to drill holes in the floor.

Thanks Stereo5 - that type of concern was why I posted.  It's probably a good idea to check with Richard Vandersteen on the maximum temp the rear of the speaker can see.
I don't have many other placement options - if needed, I can put them where I get best sq, and move if I light a fire.

I plan in the not too distant future to get some Quatro CTs, which I believe I can put further away. I don't think I want to put the 2s in the corner like I can with CTs. I'll experiment with them their first and see how it goes.  
   
I will probably see if I can get Johnny R to come over and set up the 2s in this new home and comment on the CTs and their placement.

Thanks again.
The fireplace will absolutely affect SQ.

You might want to experiment with panels of different
material that are cut to match the fp opening.

It should be possible to have your cake and eat
it too: a nice looking setup when the fireplace is
cool, good sound when also playing music
(with or without a back panel), and the ability to move
the speakers and the panel away, when things get hot.
bearskin rug and SQ be darned!!!!!!

just kidding..

two out of three pairs of Vandersteens we own flank fireplaces. The 7 and before that 5a were for years powered by an Ayre amp off to the side. On unequal wire length for a time and phase accurate speaker designed for biwiring, I and I believe the designer would advise equal lengths, you can always always listen and let your ears guide you. I managed to get the Ayre stereo amp close enough to use two 9’ wires..Have monoblocks now so the XLR for the right channel crosses the FP insert.
In our Condo system w TREO they also flank FP, equal length Kimber that will eventually get routed thru walls and under firebox.

IF you want to experiment in absorbtion inexpensively, I recommend 4 x 2’ x 2’ SONEX foam panels on a 1/4” Luan plywood backer.

have fun

I am sure Johnny R will have lots of input.
IF you do go equal length, do not create an inductor ( coil ) with the short side wire.....a large diameter coil Ok, loop back and forth is better ! 
I concur with Tomic. You should have no issues with the fireplace. If it is functioning properly, the heat should be mostly going up the flue.
I also agree in equal or near equal lengths of cable. The excess not coiled, as Tomic mentioned.
As far as hiding the cable in front of the fireplace, why not buy some of those cable conduits that allow you to walk on them? Not that you need to walk on them, but they would hide the cable in a discreet, visually appealing package.
Bob
I have 5A's that were in the same room as the fireplace ....all the lows flu away.....up, up and away....
Fireplace will kill your sound.Good luck though!!
Those of you who have run the Vandys left and right of the fireplace, Did you also biwire?
The junk I’m listening to should be put in the fireplace.
Glad to hear my sound has been killed !
skin it and bbq is next !
resonant frequency of the flu looks like a 20’ transmission line, terminated with a squirrel proof shakti stick topper !

Seriously, re ran my numbers last eve because I moved the 7’s

real in room measurements at listening chair

Left +1 dB at 20 HZ
Right -2.25 dB at 20 HZ

yes biwire !
Thanks all, The fireplace has glass doors if that will help.  Who know's what frequency they resonate at though. ;-)  I guess I'll find out.  
Where can I upload a file to show you all what I've got going on?
I would really question putting the speakers so close to the fireplace with the glass. If you convert back to a wire screen, you’re definitely asking for trouble. 1.5ft is nothing even though they’re off to the side. A decent fire puts out a lot of heat. And, it absolutely doesn’t all go up the flue. Add the radiant heat factor & you’ll toast those speakers over time. If you doubt how much heat they’ll be exposed to sit 1.5ft from the fireplace... with a really good fire. It sounds like you don’t have it but, I would never put speakers less than 5ft from a fireplace.

Just when we have all the technical electrical theory things balanced out, the tonearm adjusted & a listening sweet spot figured out... the real world laughs.


@tochsii I agree as far as the radiant heat goes. I could make some thin steel sheet panels as reflectors, that would likely mess with the sound too.

FWIW, I did some more layout using a solid modelling program and they’ll be closer to 28" out, and 38" off center. I used Richard’s room length (or width) divided by an odd integer for approximate placement.
Fires radiant lots of heat outward that’s why you have a fireplace. The shallower the box, the more outward heat. I have my speakers on both sides of my fireplace but there about 4’ from the firebox on each side. I’ve had no problems. I can’t tell if it effects the sound because I’m a 30yr carpenter and my ears are s^*t, especially my high frequency hearing. I’d worry about the heat. I’m sure they’ll sound great. 
@2tuby...…………………………………..

Bi-wiring Vandersteen speakers should be considered mandatory. Richard Vandersteen is very insistant on that.
I realized I could post some images in the virtual system area. If you go there you can see a model and a drawing of the plan, one thing I forgot to mention is the room has built-ins. I'm allowed to remove them - would they likely help or hurt?  It's not like I can listen, take them down, and decide to put them up again. LOL
Thanks again for your help.
https://systems.audiogon.com/users/jetson
The dry infrared heating is going to accelerate aging of the plastic and foam parts. More concerning, fire places emit enormous amounts of microparticulates, largely carbon and silica, and these will accumulate in the moving parts, especially around magnetic fields, paricularly voice coils. Low level exposure to acid gases especially sulfur dioxide will deteriorate polymers, especially surrounds and spiders. Personally, I wouldn't place my prized loudspeakers or components near a fireplace. 
keep the built ins....give me a room with lots of natural odd surface diffration any day over the typical audiophile dedicated space with a forest of monoblocks on the floor right in front of the ( never used turntable)...

but......this room screams...for Vandersteen VLR and a sub, add another later....

my two cents....
Gas fireplaces with no blower should not impact speakers at least 4 feet away.  My gas unit is all about the aesthetics of the fire as without a blower I cannot feel the heat until I am right up to it! Is yours gas? Blower? Take the temp at the side and back of your speakers and you will know for sure.  4ft away the temp is 75 when my room is 72.  
It's a wood burning fireplace. I'm planning on putting a black piece of metal in the place where the speakers would be and making a shield to limit convection, then measuring that with an infrared thermometer.  Being black, metal and not having any air movement it will be a conservative measurement.  Then if that seems safe, I'll put the speakers there and also measure them directly the next time.  Otherwise, I will put the speakers there and then move them when I light a fire.
@jetson ,
Yes, that is exactly what I was thinking.
B
I just saw that it is metal. The ones I recall were made of hard plastic or vinyl.
B
My main speakers (as opposed to the two subs) flank a gas fireplace and are far enough into the room they're not affected in any way by the fireplace. The side walls are far enough away also so the room (largish with a tall sloping ceiling) sounds great as the room has been professionally tuned by myself (I'm a pro sound engineer) by the act of owning furniture, and keeping my listening spot couch away from the back wall. Klipsch Heresy IIIs are short and fat and aren't bothered by the fireplace since the speaker baffles are nearly 3 feet in front of it...and they're horns after all...also not enough heat from the gas fireplace to matter...I had tall tower speakers near the same spot and they didn't get hot either. Note that the rack is to the side of the fireplace, not right next to it, and 10' of speaker cable does the trick, running along the front of the fireplace along with a thick sub cable and the two look unobtrusive and nobody steps on them. The 10' cable for the other speaker simply makes one 12" circle under the rack before going into the speaker.
If your fireplace is anything like mine, and you USE it, I would be far more worried about heat damage to the drivers and cabinets of your speakers than the way it will affect the sound. If that was the only concern, you could use a large absorbent panel in front of the fireplace, but I think that the heat will kill those speakers.
Thanks all, yes it's the heat I'm worried about more than the SQ. 

@gdnrbob - I'm using metal because that has a high heat capacity so it will be the most accurate to test for how hot a black body will get.

If I end up making radiation shields they won't be metal, or at least not all metal. I doubt I'll make radiation shields though, I will likely either have proven it's safe or move the speakers when using the fireplace.
If I was in that situation--I'd seal off the flue, put in some of the ultra-real looking LED candles that flicker, and ditch the glass.  It would look great, no speaker degradation, and you'd have better air quality to boot.  Actually did that at my last home and it looked great and my wife's asthma was better for it as well. 

I had to place one speaker (dynaudios) close to fireplace as well at old house ...thought it was far enough away and monitored and felt the side of it,it was fairly warm... but not hot...had big family gathering at xmas and fireplace got super heated... I had to get one of the woofer’s repaired because of damage from the heat,...lesson learned...

yeah the air quality was horrible as well...never got adequate air ventalation...


My fireplace is in the center of the wall and my speakers are 4 feet in front of that  wall. The center channel seems to emanate from the depths of the fireplace when the glass doors are pushed aside; I consider the fireplace an asset as opposed to a liability.

Maybe it's because one of my drivers is a Heil Airmotion Transformer, which is dipole, meaning music is projected front and rear, but I get an excellent holographic sound stage.
Have you considered rotating the whole room 90 degrees counter-clockwise?  This would put the speakers on the wall to the left of the fireplace.  It may resolve your issues, and even sound a little better for when you are dining.  You would want some absorption and bass trapping on the wall opposite the speakers, and the open wall has no reflection... but at least you would have less worries with the FP.  And, you'd still retain your FP view from the couches.

Just a thought.
@soundermn I did, but it just doesn't seem like I'd have the space needed to walk through the room without putting the speakers right up against the wall.  I'll take a second look at it.
That could be an issue.   It's hard to tell by the diagram what the room dimensions are.  
All kind of energies are emitted from the fireplace.  Test and see.