Speaker Rake

I have a problem,I own a pair Talon Firebirds, I have been experimenting with speaker placement for a long time know, I have concrete floor with berber carpet, I find that they sound better with out their large spikes attached, a couple of weeks ago I notice that when you are standing up and I first press play and I return to my listening position and sit down you lose the very bottom end, I have experimented by placing a piece of carpet under the back, this seam to fix the difference in sound from standing to sitting, I then thought what would happen if I replace the spikes and adjust the rake, using the spikes, with the spike's attached I
find it's flat, should they be level or rake back or forward, I am at a lost.

to loose the midrange, today I played with the rate and sitting placement
of sitting position I found the further I lent forward the better it sounded but when I moved the seating position it was lost again!I read on another
post of people placing platforms under there speakers, I would think this would be a bad Idea as this not how the speaker would of been designed as I am finding in my case as the hight of the spikes seam to destroy the
sound, but in saying that mine design to use the spikes, sip
of been designed to be set at this hight and not at what they with spikes, I use a level to get the level and still wasn't happy, is it the rake?should forward or back.

That's just one of those things you have to experiment with until you get it to where you like it. There are so any variable - the height of your chair; the distance from your speakers; toe-in - rake is just another variable in setting up your speakers. In my case, after a lot of experimenting I decided that perfectly vertical was the best in my room because my chair sits a little low, but I still play with toe-in, width and distance. You can make yourself crazy trying to find absolute perfection, if such a thing even exists.
The Vandersteen 7 has a laser device built into it which facilitates your very adjustment problem. The lasers are pointed directly toward the listener's seated position for the best sound. You are correct that misadjustment of the rake angle on some speaker designs can negetively affect the sound.
My suggestion is stop obsessing and listen to music you enjoy. This is supposed to be fun, not agonizing.
hi, join the club i,m starting. i don't have a name for it yet because i can't make up my mind. i have 3 nice systems [tweaked and optimized imo] in different rooms and every one of them sounds totally different. i agree 100 percent with Lindisfarne,,,just enjoy the music...... good luck

"My suggestion is stop obsessing and listen to music you enjoy. This is supposed to be fun, not agonizing."

You are so wrong about this. We are in the heart of football season and music is definitely a contact sport, take no prisoners, gime more bass, I want sizzle in my highs, (not those highs but music highs)

K-rose can have it all and we can help.....
Get the lasers out and dial it in.

First sorry for my opening,was trying to edit my post and hit send in stead.

The setup is like fourplay its half the fun, you have to put in the ground work so as to experiance climax!

I am going to look into the lazer, thats a good idea can be used for first refection point as well.

Thank you all!
K-Rose, my experience is that moving things around can yield excellent results and big payback if you are patient. My speakers are designed so that the rake angle is tilted down and I like them with a fair amount of toe-in. I have experimented with wide vs; narrow set-up, no toe-in, crossed toe-in, toe-out, closer, further away, etc. There is a definitive spot and toe-in that works really well, at least for me and my room. It seems that you are getting tuned-in to the changes that your system and room is capable of.

@Lindisfrane, obsessing about the details and extracting high-level audio performance is why most people come together here and ask the collective about their experience and advice.
I replaced the spikes on my Grand Veena speakers with BDR cones, and then put small ceramic tiles under the back ones to slant the speakers forward.

The speaker instructions state that if you sit closer to the speakers this sounds better than the standard rake.

I would agree, so experiment with your seated position and try raking the speaker forwards or down as opposed to tilted back.

And as far as what this hobby is about, it shouldn't be about compromise and setlling for second best, if you have the means to make the music sound better, why not?

It doesn't mean spending big bucks either.Sometimes all it takes is a little effort , like moving the speakers around.

Some folks are easy to please, others are not.
Some folks like remote controls, others don't if they mess the sound.

Nobody has all the answers,but we should all strive to make the best we can with what we have.
Funny I have vandy 7 and have been dealing with this same issue. I find in my room if I stand or lean foward the base is a bit fuller. I actually moved my seating position up a bit and the sound improved. I have not had hours to experiment but I have a feeling for me it is the room itself or the sofa I am sitting on has a higher back and is sucking/absorbing the sound. One of these days I will move the sofa and put a chair there to hear the difference.
Hello K rose,
I have set many a speaker and have a formula that works for me. First assuming that you have your basic placement, i.e. how far from the sidewall/backwall and width set. On Talon Firebirds, you focal point will be half way between your ceramic mid and tweeter. Start with a full tow and have your left speakers focal point towed in pointed directly at your left ear, right focal point pointed directly at right ear.... Listen adjust rake angle at this point, still getting the focal point between the tweeter and mid pointing at your ear. You should now have very good imaging, but depending on room character and speaker response curve, you could be too bright. If so, start moving your tow outward by only a quarter inch or so at a time always maintaining rake angle. A quarter inch speaker movement will result in 2 to 6 inches at the ear depending on distance of speaker to ear. Listen.... continue to move outward until tonal balance is there and you are not distroying your soundstage. Somewhere there will be a fine line that you will need to decide about sound stage or tonal balance. If you have a great room and very flat speakers, it is possible, you will keep it pointed directly at your ears without towing out. Some speakers are designed to be pointed straight forward, if that is the case, you could slowly turn them until you like this best, but in any case, your rake angle will be set. Good luck, Tim
I found some butcher blocks that fit my Silverline Preludes exactly...painted them (2 under each speaker) black and they look like they were always there. It lifts the speakers up about 4 inches which is all I and they needed it seems. D'apolitos need to be flat. Also, I use Vibrapods under the speakers...that works amazingly well for reasons I refuse to understand. I also don't understand why visual cues don't do the job that lasers do...can't you "see" the toe in degree or level from the speaker edges? I sense a laser sales conspiracy simmering...