Speaker Positioning

toe in....in a nearfield setting

Yikes that is small... Gonna be some very intricate testing.. Start with them about 1" Toed in, for example the back corner of the speaker lets say is 11" from the sidewall, make the front corners 12"... If this is fairly 3 dimensional but not strong in the center of the room example the voice does not sound like it is coming from a center channel in the middle of the room which you don't have but should sound like you do, then move them only a Quarter inch more toe in at a time, you could try straight ahead at first and go a 1/4" inch each time untill they snap into place.. I did this for about 2 months with mine and finally the speakers dissapeard like nothing sounds like it is physically coming from them, things just materialize in mid air, but this could be very dependent on listening position and room treatment as well.. but you can at least experiment with toe'ing for free. There is no way to give anyone a perfect answer on this, its all trial and error with every speaker depending on the Room it is in, don't accept a lesser answer, your speaker manufacture really has nothing to do with the Toe'ing aspect as much as positions of them in a given environment.

Forgot to mention 7 ft apart might be a bit much considering your only sitting 7 ft away, its basically like wearing headphones at that distance, I would make them about 5 ft or 6 ft apart instead which will help center the image more already and consolidate some energy to the center of the room, cause you are probably overshooting any chance of center image that far apart and sitting so close, and then follow the quarter inch toe'ing method from my previous post.

depending upon your taste, you might try towing the speakers out. mark the position with masking tape before you move the speakers, so you can return to the original position. also considering elevating the speakers.

Try the mirage speakers owners forum http://www.miragespeakers.com/v2/forum.php

I would keep bipolars away from walls and especially the rear wall....so as to delay the reflected energy. It seems the brain can handle secondary reflections as long as they are not "crowding" the primary signal (you will sense if this is happening as it sounds "claustrophobic").

In essence a biploar is like having a virtual second set of speakers placed behind your rear wall at the same distance as your speakers are from the rear wall => you actually hear four speakers ...really I am serious!! Therefore toe in or out will do very different things compared to a conventional speaker. For example, if you toe in the real speaker then your "virtual" speaker will toe out!!! That is why MrTennis suggestion to toe out is an option worth checking out...as it might give you a very wide soundstage whilst maintaining a solid central image.

I suggest you try to sit at about 1.5 times the distance between your speakers and well away from any wall behind your head.

G'luck

Thanks to all for the informative and interesting responses. I'll experiment with trying to move them a bit closer together but the audio table that holds my gear is between the speakers. They are a decent distance from the wall but I cannot move any further back. My listening chair is against the opposite wall that the system occupies. I have always flirted with the notion of removing that wall and making my place into a large studio. I could move further away but I don't know if the structure of the place would allow it and of course the landlady would have to be told. As great as a relationship that we have I don't think it would wash. Hurts being poor.

Zar:
Once you have been satisfied with the new speaker positioning, for your room I'd suggest to consider acoustic treatments. I had a listening room that was helped quite a bit by first reflection point treatments and corner tweaks as well. My speakers were not bipolar though.

that question came to rest when reveiws and manufacture recomended that i turn dyn 1.3 se,s straight,it made such a phenominal differance.it was the most dramatic upgrade i have done yet.

Let us know the results of your experiments. G'luck

Great suggestions above.
One more: If your back is against the wall, a big tapestry or something even thicker right behind you will help greatly to reduce reflections. It will make your room appear larger sonically (I think) and should get rid of some harsh sounding reflections.
Great speakers!!!

Shadorne says: """In essence a biploar is like having a virtual second set of speakers placed behind your rear wall at the same distance as your speakers are from the rear wall => you actually hear four speakers ...really I am serious!! Therefore toe in or out will do very different things compared to a conventional speaker.""" Yes, indeed, I have bi-polar speakers too (Superslim 1800se, from www.ambiencespeakers.com.au) I love that Ribbon Sound but at the same time the back firing wave has to be neutralized. I am getting a few GIK 4" thick Acoustic Panels. I think prety much all bi-polars must deal with the same problem either taking them away from the back walls (as far as possible) or absorbing those waves with some kind of Room Acoustic Treatment. Best, Antonio Machado.

Antonio:
A friend has Magnepan's 3.6 and had to deal with glass behind his speakers. After testing with different options we opted for using absorbing panels and vertical blinds. At the end the result was surprisingly good since he can balance the absorption amount to avoid too much taking into acount the other treatments in the room.
Drastic difference between fully open and closed blinds. Nice fine tunig tweak BTW. Luis

You did not mention how far from the side walls they are or if you treat the first order reflection points. If the speaker is not to bright facing you then do that. What you could do is face them straight ahead and slowely toe in until the center fill image is as tight/small as you can make it (realistic) then stop.

My suggestion, to aleviate the reflection problems, is to set your speakers and listening position on the the diagonal . Put your chair in one corner facing the opposite corner. Then set your speakers up in that same diagonal between your listening position and the corner that it faces . It will 'fix' quite a few problems and is easy and cheap to try ! Then set up your speaker toe-in or toe-out as you see fit.