Chakster, Bear in mind Artisan Fidelity posseses the ability to craft a plinth using any specific predetermined dimensional or aesthetic criteria you desire. In terms of the Sp10Mk2, this applies to a conventional type layout or a direct motor coupled design. To address your question, yes, the plinth does make a significant difference in sound, and certainly does play an especially critical role in mass loaded turntable designs. All aforementioned manufactures offer quality products, however, they will all differ to a degree not only aesthetically, but also in terms of tonal attributes and playback characteristics due to the various materials and design architecture employed.
If you want to squeeze the most out of your Mk2, I would vote for the Dobbins plinth PLUS the Krebs upgrade. The Krebs mod is very reasonable in cost (about $700, I think) for the level of improvement it affords. In fact, if cost is a major issue, I would advise just go for the Krebs mod and use your existing plinth until you can afford a Dobbins (or Artisan Fidelity, etc). My reason for preferring the Dobbins is that it gets rid of the SP10 chassis. Artisan can do the same. Possibly OMA can do that too. (I've lost track of the latest and greatest.) That's the way to go, IMO.
Lewm, any mods outside of my country is impossible for me, shipping cost too much. I can only do it here (such as recaps etc), but now all original sp10mk2 just works fine and i already find local vendor for recap work in the future if needed. Actually Dobbins plinth (and the price quoted here) is a classic one to fit original sp-10mk2. Removing chassis is another story and different plinth he use for his own Kodo The Beat turntable design at much higher price. What i like about removed chassis is the abbility to use any tonearm with it, with original sp10 chassis it's not always possible with short tonearms as you know. Anyway i'm gonna stick to my Reed "12.
It would be nice to read opinion of OMA graphite late plinth users, seems like it's less popular plinth and different technology, but looks great. Sad that i'm so far away and can't check it myself in real life.
I use all-slate plinths for my Lenco and Denon DP80. I am very pleased, particularly with the Lenco in slate. But in some respects this is a subjective judgement. For my SP10 Mk3, I added a hardwood layer to the base of a large slate plinth, firmly fixed to the bottom surface of the slate. This was done empirically, but it actually did seem to make the turntable more neutral sounding when a priori I heard no real problem with the all-slate original version.
My stand is well damped with glass, metal and sarbothane in between.Glass and (most) metal are not damping materials.
Glass and metal typically reflect higher frequency energies at the boundary layer. Imagine a room consisting of a big steel box with large glass windows. Stand inside and play your violin loudly. Would those windows, walls, floor or ceiling "damp" the sound? I think not.
Lower frequency energies which do cross the boundary layer into a glass or metal layer tend to be propagated rather than damped. Closing a window attenuates birdsongs because their high frequencies are reflected, but the low frequency growls of the garbage truck pass through the glass and are still easily audible.
Some materials do damp vibrations. The dense hardwood of your Reed tonearm is one such and that contributes to its quietness. But glass and metal typically do not.
By design, phono cartridges detect and amplify vibrations. Therefore, any energies reflected or propagated toward them will be interpreted as signal, which raises the background level of sonic mud. Including sonically reflective or propagative materials in either the TT stand or the plinth raises the system's noise floor.
Of course you should buy whatever plinth you like for whatever reasons you wish. Just thought it might be helpful to clarify some mistaken assumptions as regards sonics.
Mr. Deacon it's alwasy nice to read your posts, you're right, forgive my english, i just tried to say that my stand is Heavy and Stable. "Well damped" was incorrect word. It was not specially designed, just a custom build heavy big metal stand with thick glass on top of the sarbothane pads.
As far as i know Teak Wood (which my current plinth is made from) it a good damper along with sarbothane.
While preferring not to contradict anyone on stuff I cannot refrain from saying, in my own opinion, that Sorbothane, while seeming to be a perfectly good damping material, is actually not. Now, someone might possibly find some place where Sorbothane improves the sound, but I have found in most situations it ruins the sound. Like many rubbery, gel-like, soft materials Sorbothane appears to allow energy to be stored even more than it would be with no damping.
Geoffkait, that's interesting point.
Anyway those sarbothane pads are cheap as cheeps and easy to remove.
The main question is still the actual plinth for SP10. Someone like Raul use his SP10 in "naked fashion" and swear it's better. I never tried as i don't have any kind of tonearm pod (and SP10 without plinth looks a bit ugly).
Some plinths are just plinth (teak wood of whatever), but some of them must be a "rocket science" of plinth like those from Dobbins or OMA (according to the price).
It would be nice to look on OMA and Dobbins plinth in user systems on pictures (if someone could share right here).
this is the one from OMA, but it's not the budged single layer version, it's actually double layers plinth (looks great): http://oswaldsmillaudio.com/technics
I have a two part OMA Plinth for my SP10 MK2, It has been great. `Previously had a wood plinth, made from butcher block. The OMA plinth made a huge difference in detail and soundstage layering. I currently have it on a Minus K platform, but only because my floors are wood and suspended, my house is wood frame and build in 1918.
I like that the tonearm mounting isn't cantilevered and simple to adjust.
Chakster, the plinth will have a direct effect on the sound but not knowing anything about your Taiwanese base you might be trading in the best one for the looks of another! IME the best SP10 base was the Obsidian one built by Technics, the rest are hit and miss
Win, that's an attractive looking base, reminds me of your Saskia.
Crubio & Geoffkait, I see nothing in minus K's literature or design to suggest any beneficial attributes for Chakster's SP10, do you care to expand on why you're recommending the minusk platform?
I think all turntables benefit from isolation, I included it in my description only to give him fuller detail as to how I dealt with my plinth. When I heard the OMA plinth in their system before purchasing, they did not have it isolated in any way and it sounded terrific.
Of the three people using Minus K, none have parted with them and all have spoken as to enhanced detail, no negative attributes, but this is not a thread about Minus K.
I think a plinth which separates the motor/platter from the electronics should be ideal but cost more.
I did do away with the brake and the plastic housing, tightened the screws which hold the motor in place with a torque wrench to insure uniformityand the sound got better.
Are you in a rush to get a plinth? I am developing a very interesting plinth for my Sony TTS8000 - I am convinced that it will be transferable to the SP10.
I don't want to give you too much detail save to say that it's not all about mass, nor all about damping, but getting a balance.
David, you are right.
It's a shame that i can't just go and check my SP10 in different plinths.
I'm in another world. This Teak Wood plinth from Thai is virtually unknown, no feedbacks/reviews online, but the guy also made Garrard and Thorens plinth off the same Teak Wood. I don't like the Obsidian one as it's impossible to mount "12inch tonearm on it. My current arms are all "12 inch.
This is a picture of my SP10 in Teak Wood plinth
with Thomas Schick tonearm (i'm currently selling):
Thanks Mosin, the one you have posted reminds me Monarch turntable (which is no other than SP10 motor). Unfortunately not for "12 arm. Anyway SP10 wihtout metal frame is much nices in any plinth and more flexible to tonearm mounting.
Monarch looks really nice on this picture:
Kodo The Beat turntable in Steve Dobbins plinth also great:
I like the idea of two armboards on the back (Steve Dobbins style):
Link below to a recent project with my sp10 mkII.
I had already tried a high mass approach with stacked layers of baltic birch multi-ply. Then the idea occurred to me that 'what if' one tried a lighter but rigid platform. Wouldn't spurious energy transfer into and around the lighter plinth somewhat quicker than with the previous massive plinth. That was part of the plan.
Also in use is a Minus-K BM1-150. I already had this one prior to the SP10 mkII project. I had ordered the heavy Minus-k model to accommodate some massive slate that was under a TD124.
I have to link an old thread in my topic:
All about plinth or no plinth (but pod) including comments from Jonathan Weiss (Oswalds Mill Audio) about his graphite slate plinth (best design imho). Nice reading.
Meanwile Technics "plinth" for their new turntable (coming out this winter) looks exactly like electric stove (lol), watch their presentation and sample unit without tonearm in these videos: http://youtu.be/gQoXsvRsLJA
Steve, what about version for "12 inch tonearms? "
For 11" and 12" tonearms, I would need to draw new plans to incorporate longer tonearms into this plan. As it is, I drew my plan specifically for the tonearm I had planned to use in my instance, a Graham 2.2. And with no thought to producing any more.
I can say, after using this plinth for more than a year, I am happy with the end result. compared to a massive Baltic Birch constrained layer plinth, this 'light-rigid' plinth does indeed have a quicker sense of pace about it. Transients happen with a quickness not heard from the more massive base I had tried just previous. Plus, I have excellent bass performance in this setup that I would not have thought previously possible out of that tonearm and the two cartridges I've used on it. Very articulate and detailed...with great pace and slamminess. Better than I thought it would be.
The Mule Plinth
Yes, Chakster, I'm getting the "Obsidian Inspired" plinth in satin black/medium oak veneer. I customized with adjustable black Delrin feet (from a UK mfr near Acoustand) that raise the plinth about 2cm higher than the sorbothane feet pictured on the Acoustand website. I'm trading off a bit of the sleek, "low rider" look with the stock feet for ease of leveling. Just had the SP10 painted in black automotive paint. We'll see if it all comes together well! Bill Thalmann is also adding the Krebs Upgrade and installing a new bearing thrust pad. Experts like Bill may not be doing comprehensive SP10 work in the coming years, so I opted to address electronics and motor/bearing in a single shop visit. My PSU is a Dave Cawley "Timestep", so I'm set there.
I've received my "Obsidian Inspired" plinth. I had Acoustand install "type 1 black delrin height adjustable feet" from Ebay UK seller "kridon-image". The plinth has the simple look I was after. The black delrin feet blend nicely. Both plinth and feet are very well-crafted. The black painted wood requires care to prevent scratches. The plinth is lighter than I expected, but will sit on a very heavy Myrtlewood platform. My SP10 is on its way to Applied Fidelity for updraded sapphire bearing installation, with servicing and Krebs upgrade just added by Bill Thallman.I may have the table back for Christmas and will report on how it sounds once it is put back together.
Next week i will get my rack for Luxman PD-444 powder coated, it's my own design, super heavy, can't wait to try it.
I have few more Technics SP-20 tutnables and looking at EMT metal rack here i wonder why not use similar custom made racks for my SP-20 or SP-10mk2 instead of traditional plinth? It's some sort of the "nude" style prefered by some a'gon members. But wooden pannel can be installed on top for the deck and for the tonearm. I think this industrial rack looks cool.
Some more info about EMT 930 / 927 seismic base is here.
the EMT metal rack looks awesome. please post pics
I am using with my SP10 mk3 / Technics plinth with your MS cu-180 platter mat with Stillpoint V's threaded into the feet positions, on top of a granite platform isolated by compression springs.
Chakster, I own Technics SL 1000,mk 2 with Obsidan plinth
but removed the mediocre original feet and put AT pneumatic
636 footers instead. The plinth is actually a frame (not guitar
box) like Lew's slate plints. The armbase is according to me
also suitable for 12'' tonearms. I use (10'') FR-64 s and there
is sufficient room on the armbase for an larger arm. Waht kind of
''Obsidian plinth'' are you referring to?
@downunder I wish i could aford the still points for my luxman pd444, tomorrow i'm gonna get my new rack for PD444 from the warehouse.
With my old SP-10mk2 i use teak wood plinth, this is how it looks.
@nandric my plinth is actually a frame too, but it looks more massive than Technics obsidian plinth (more room to mount "12 tonearms). I can't remember how many variations of obsidian plinth they made, never tried them, but i have those Audio-Technica 636 pneumatic feet.
Anyway, the idea is to use metal frame like this EMT , why not?
chakster, if you are curious, Technics offered at least three plinths for their SP-10 series of motor units.
The first, for their initial SP-10 was a basic box frame. With the introduction of their SP-10 Mk 2 came the SH-10B5, a 38.2 pound composite obsidian plinth. The SH-10B7 was similar but weighed nearly 42 pounds. I thought there was another option but can no longer find reference to it on the Vintage Technics site.
Your teak plinth certainly looks nice, whether optimal for sonics or not.
SH-10b3 - this is what you got? I'm talking about Sh-10b3 as the most common obsidian, i know there are few more variations, but they are very rare. Even the SH-10b3 is about $800+
Technics did something wrong with that SH-10b3 if it's not the best match sonically with their SP-10mk2 turntable? Why do we need heavier and bigger custom plywood plinth, is that an upgrade over the stock SH-10B3?
Chakster, We don't "need" anything, but it is in the nature of audiophiles to believe that we can improve upon what the factory (any factory) made for us by spending money on a fancy substitute or building our own. This is not always borne out in actual practice, of course, but we audiophiles have the additional privilege of relying upon only our own opinion to determine success or failure.
Also, for every SP10 Mk2 or Mk3, there is not necessarily a factory-made obsidian plinth to be found at a reasonable price, if there is one to be found at all. So there is no shortage of aftermarket entrepreneurs to satisfy the need thus generated. I, for one, am very happy with the 80-lb slate and wood plinth I had made for my Mk3, and I spent less than $700 to get there. In my dreams, I would have wanted to remove the Mk3 motor assembly from its chassis and mounted that into the slate directly. But it's too late for that now.
Dear chakster, To me it make no sense to pay more for a
plinth then the TT. For the SP-10,mk 2 considering its weight
the mentioned plinths are obviously ''overkill''. My first SP 10
plinth was SH-10 B4. I assume that ''10'' means 10 '' tonearm.
I have no idea about other plinth models.
I bought the SL 1000, mk2 complete but changed the footers.
The included feet were the same as in the SH-10 B4 . So those
''negative reviews '' are written because of those worthless
feet. I was lucky to find those AT 636 pneumatic footers but those
are not easy to get. However Raul owns the bigger kind and my
own the 636. Asking cost nothing.
BTW your new metal racks are also part of your plinth. Deed
you use sand or lead plummet to fill in the tubes? I used the
so called ''quartz sand'' for my ''Copulare'' rack. I hope this
kind of sand is available in your ''region''. Much cheaper than
The plinths for the SP10 series are -
SH10-B4 - for SP10mkii, el cheapo box, NOT obsidian, 5kg
SH10-B3 - for SP10mkii & SP20 obsidian /wood base, 12kg
SH10-B5 - for SP10mkiii ( round mounting hole), obsidian, 19kg
SH10-B7 - for SP10mkii & iii ,square cutout, obsidian, 17kg
They are fragile/brittle and many have cracks/chips.
They are fragile/brittle and many have cracks/chips.
But what about sonic quality of the b3 and higher models ?
Yes, my racks designed to be filled with sand. My ex AT-636 went to Australia for another SL 1000 mk2 owner. But i have 8 x AT-616 pneumatic footers designed for much higher weight, this model is adjustable. Maybe i will put them under Luxmans to try. TT-101 also waiting for some sort of plinth. I agree that the plinth should not cost more than a turntable (at least for me).
The big difference between professional made Obsidian plinth
and amateurs made plinths are the dust cover which can be
positioned at whatever level and tonearm board which can be
easy fastened with 4 big screws . Those sell for 600 euro each
while their construction and quality can't be matched by any
of those ''alternative'' plinths. For my Kuzma Stabi Reference I
need to use an simple plastic sheet in order to protect the platter
from dust. The dust cover on my SL 1000,mk2 I need to be clean
each week. Without dust cover all this dust will be transferred to
to your LP's.