Soundstage - Too much?


Is there such a thing as too much soundstage? Should the width of the stage extend to the side walls in your listening room? How would you compare the soundstage in your system to live music?
jtinn

Showing 11 responses by perfectimage

Ben. The sidewalls are what reflects the sound back to create a image beyond the wall. The image created will be as far past the wall as the speaker is as far from the wall. Ex. If your speaker is two feet from the wall then the image will be two feet past the wall.
Yes you are right. The further the speaker is from the wall the further it will image but it is the wall that creates that image. As you move that speaker in the soundstage widens in direct relationship of the distance betwen the wall and speaker. Room treatment just makes the sound wave react in a way that "tricks" the sound in working as if it was in a bigger or better room. If the speaker is two feet from the wall the image will be two feet beyond the wall. If the speaker is five feet from the wall then the image will be five feet beyond the wall. This is of course broken down to simple terms and there are numorous factors to also consider for overall soundstaging.
I was trying to break things down to simple terms. You are right that there is a limit. The further from the wall the speaker gets the less defined the image gets. It will only project so far. If it wasnt the walls you wouldnt get a bigger soundstage in a bigger room with the same system. That is also why room treatment goes on the walls because it needs to be at the reflection point.

If you were to put your system in a feild it would sound completely different. I have never done this but I have always wanted to. I also think that, set up right, any speaker will image beyond the wall and I have been able to accomplish this with every pair of speakers I have owned including some real cheapies.

Of all the varibles of high end audio acoustics is one of the most important. Ask anyone with a didicated listening room what they think. Rooms, walls and ceiling, are layed out in a way to articulate sound and dissapate excess. This is all based on where the walls and ceilings are relative to where the speakers are. The reflection points.
Sedond. We are never going to convince each other so I wont push anymore. You have very keen observation skills and although I cant convince you maybe I can help. I highly recommend The Master Handbook of Acoustics by Everest. Its a heavy read at times but very imformative and covers all of the topics we were discusing. Enjoy!!
I think the problem lies in my inability to explain it. There are so many varibles to acoustics. I think when you are moving in the speaker you moving it closer to its sweet spot. You wouldnt put the speakers side by side and you wouldnt put them against the wall. The best spot will be wherever that paticular speaker and the room work best with each other. Like when you focus a camera manualy. To much either way makes it out of focus.

When you move the speaker you are also changing its reflection points all over the room. The ceiling, back wall, front wall, and floor. There are also secondary reflection points which are also changed. The other reflection points are the reason you dont want your speaker the same distance from the side wall that it is from the back wall. Or that when you tow in your speakers you dont want the back facing the corner. They all have a drastic effect on each other

Also the end of the sound stage isnt the furthest point you hear an instrument imaged. Its the size of the room that your system sounds like its playing in. The neaunces that makes your system sound like it is in a bigger room are the also the benefits of good imaging.

I cant stress how great that book is. It breaks down frequency, sound waves, and will even give you basic mathmatical equations to plot resonate modes for your room. It even gets into what would happen if you put your system in a feild. All your observations are obvios traits of a great ear. That combined with the knowledge of that book would give you a great set up. A properly set up system is by far the largest upgrade you could ever make.
These debates have me rethinking and rereading.

"Reflection from flat surfaces"

"Like the light/mirror analogy, the reflected wavefronts act as though they originated from a sound image. This image source is located the same distance behind the wall as the real source is in front of the wall. This is the simple case - a single reflecting surface. In a rectagular room, there are six surfaces and the source has an image in all six sending energy back to the receiver. In addition to this, images of the images exist, and so on, resuting in more complex situation. However in computing the total sound intensity at a given receiving point, the contributions of all of these images must be taken into consideration."

Taken from the Master Handbook of Ccoustics. by Alton Everst Pg 193

I hope this is clearer then my explanation

I admit, yours and Sedonds, arguments are impressive. Sedonds obseravtions and your argument about imaging off the floor is what got me rereading again. I found myself quating from what I remember reading and couldnt answer all of your questions. Its been a couple of years since I read the book and I am a little rusty. Acoustics are very complex and I think it breaks down to an overall understanding then individual properties. I will try to find the passage that covers that specific question. But Just because its in a book doesnt mean we cant question its intergrity.
Acoustic theory is based on a perfectly shaped sound wave. The better the equipment or source the more accurate a sound wave will be created. A bad recording or a bad piece of equipment will distort this wave giving you different results.
You are right that the speakr is recreating the recoreded sound stage. I think though that it does it through perposly useing reflection points.
You are right that the speaker is recreating the recoreded sound stage. I think though that it does it through perposly useing reflection points.
Craig I would love to help you with your set up but I need to know two more things. Where is your chair and if you use a sub where is that?

Doug: Great point and I am still thinking out my reply.