Sound correction in small room


Hello All,

I’m having a hell of a time with the sound in my newly constructed sound room and have spent the past couple of months learning about acoustical engineering (4+ months in theory being proactive, the past 2 weeks reactive trying to solve specific problems). I know there are a multitude of threads, videos, and websites about the subject across the innerwebs and I have looked at many, but they start to blur together so I am hoping to get some tips on my specific situation. But first, a couple of disclaimers: 1) 5 months ago I knew nothing about acoustical engineering... I now know just enough to know that I don’t know… 2) I blew waayyyy (I mean wayyyyyyyyy) past my intended budget many many moons ago.. So please keep these two things in mind when commenting/making recommendations. I’m trying to provide the necessary information without being too verbose so apologies for the length of the post…


The main characters:

Raven Nighthawk integrated tube amp (I believe 2x20w…)

Tekton Double Impacts (yes, I put 5ft. tall speakers in a room with a 6 ft. ceiling.. no, I can’t change that fact..)

Denon dvd player for the source (it’s been around a while and was probably lower midrange 8+/- years ago…)

Supporting cast (My room…):

Dimensions are 15’1” x 10’2’x 6’3” (176.5x122x76.75) yes, the ceiling is just over 6 ft. tall as I did the decoupled thing and there was also venting in the way

carpeted floor, standard walls and ceiling (textured and painted drywall), components are on 5’x2’ table, and there is a 58 inch plasma mounted on the wall. Single seat glider/rocking chair and footrest, 5’x5’ cube bookcase, minifridge, and lamp. I’m skipping over the sound proofing measures used when building the room as I don’t think they are relevant at the moment..


The villains:

1) I have a bass tone (produced by the bass guitar) that just floods the room if I have the speakers at the 2 ft. by 1ft. and toed inward placement. Ironically, moving the speakers back to only 2-4 inches from the front wall helps with this, however, I lose the lower/bottom end almost completely. From what I have read this is completely backasswards and makes no sense but here I am…

2) I am failing the “clap” test which leads to lack of clarity/intelligibility (I believe acoustical panels should address this… see below)

3) Not getting that “wow” factor that I know these speakers can produce (I had them hooked up to my main system for a few days whilst building the room and it was definitely there.. I can best describe it as lacking the immersive power that I was expecting… maybe described as loud and clear with all sounds well represented without blasting at the same time???)..


1st attempts at sound management/correction

1) Speaker placement (2ft. from front wall/1 ft. from side walls, 3in.from front wall/~1ft. from side walls, as well as a multitude of other positions)

2) Seating placement (38% from rear wall.. can’t do it from the front wall, too close..) as well as further back and forward.. Farther back seems to sound better at the moment

3) Equilateral triangle placement of seat and the speakers (ironically very close to 38% anyway…) making sure the sound shoots behind me, not directly at my ears

4) Diffusion: 5’x5’ cube bookcase with CDs and whatnot on rear wall (also a minifridge and lamp…) A few of the resources either directly stated, or at least implied diffusion can be effective this way…


Forthcoming sound management

1) I am attaining the materials to build 6 panels (2’x4’ with OC 703 already purchased) and will put 4 of them at the 1st and possibly 2nd reflection points with the other 2 as clouds at 1st reflection. The only door to the room may impact that 1st reflection point on one wall though…

2) Considering bass traps but want to see how the panels affect things first.. Regarding this, I love that deep low bass but I want it accurate and appropriate, not that singular hum sound

3) Also considering more panels (the only real space left would be the front and rear walls. Possibly more on the ceiling)


The actual questions

1) Does it seem like I am on the right track?

2) What am I missing/what should I be attending to that I am not?

3) If I end up doing bass traps, what material???

4) Any other suggestions (speaker placement, seating location, more panels, etc…)

Thank you in advance, these forums are a great resource!

la10slgr

Showing 5 responses by auxinput

If you wanted to try to build your own bass panels, I would use two different types of panels. I would put a layer of Owens 2" 703 FRK in front and then a standard 2" 703 panel in back (making a 4" panel). The FRK has a metal foil coating. This servers two purposes. The foil acts as a "membrane" to resonate the bass frequencies, and the resonation energy is absorbed by the 2" fiberglass behind it. Also, the foil will reflect more mids/highs instead of absorbing, which can be a good thing. The FRK will absorb the lower frequencies better than non-FRK. The GIK Monster Bass traps with FlexRange Limitor will still work better in my opinion. The GIK stuff is so cost effective that you wouldn’t really be saving much (maybe 25-30%) if you attempted to build the same thing yourself. Additionally, the FRK foil will reflect reflect high frequencies even more than a standard wall. Having too much FRK foil in a room can cause the high frequencies to become out of control. So it is always a fine line of experimenting until you get the best results. The GIK FlexRange does not have this high-frequency reflection problem.

Check out the ATS Acoustics website. You can buy different type of fiberglass panels direct.

You have a relatively small room. My room is somewhat similar shaped at 11 x 17 x 9. Based on amroc, you have room nodes at 55hz, 75h, 90hz, 110hz, 111hz, all at different walls, but always in the corners:

https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc?l=15.1&w=10.16&h=6.25&ft=true&r60=0.6

If you had the budget, I would get the GIK Monster Bass traps with FlexRange Limiter (important) to fill the rear corners. You can get two 2’x4’ panels and two 2’x2’ panels to fill the entire rear corners. This will definitely help with bass and bass definition. If you wanted to, you could also put these in the front corners (if you had room). The GIK "FlexRange Limiter" panel works significantly better in the bass region (60hz to 120hz) and will also not absorb as much high frequencies. Absorbing too much high frequency can suck the life out of the room and you only want to absorb the mid/high frequencies where it is important to do so. I have a couple in my room and I can attest to their effectiveness.

You should also research Speaker Boundary Interference Response (SBIR). Your Tekton midrange is very close to the ceiling and your speakers could be very close to the side walls. Putting the Owens 703 on the ceiling and walls surround the speakers may work out better than trying to target the first reflection points. That’s what happened in my room because I had to put my bookshelves about a foot away from the side wall due to space restrictions. In any event, the 703 will help with slap echo wherever you put them.

You are correct in your understanding of what "room nodes" are.  I do not understand the math behind room nodes either, but the amroc page was really intended to show you what the "node frequencies" are and where they are the loudest (most pressure).  The locations where they are the loudest are the best places to put bass absorption panels (which are generally located in the front/rear corners).

If you were buying GIK, I recommended the Monster Bass Traps with the FlexRange Limiter because it excels in absorbing the 80-120 frequency range and it also does not absorb as much mids/highs.  You could get the triangle shaped bass traps if you wanted (these are the GIK TriTraps).  They will have only a little bit better absorption in the very low frequencies (such as 40-60hz), but it is not much better than the Monster Bass Traps.  However, the Monster Bass Traps with the FlexRange Limitor have a significantly better absorption in the 80-120hz area.  See measurement reports here:

http://gikacoustics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/RAL-Report-FRT-Range-Limiter-Monster-Bass-Trap.pdf

http://gikacoustics.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/RAL-Tri-Trap-J-Mount.pdf

To give you a point of reference, I have 14 sound panels in my room.  Only 4 are full absorption types:

6 - Owens 703 FRK 2"

4 - Roxul Rockboard 80 2" (full absorption)

2 - Monster Bass Traps 7" with Flexrange Limiter

2 - Limp Mass panel bass panel tuned to 63 hz

Four of the 703 FRK are partially covered with towels - this was me tuning how much high-frequency reflections I actually had in the room.  The FRK panels actually worked very well in doing bass absorption down to 70-80 hz and would be an excellent alternative to the GIK Monster Bass Traps.

I did not double-up my FRK panels to make 4" panels.  I used black Guilford of Main fabric to cover them, which is more expensive at about $14 per yard from ATS Acoutics.  It requires 1.5 yards to cover one 2'x4' panel.  I just wrap the cloth around back and use spray glue to glue it on the back side of the panel (no side frame).  You could use duct tape if you wanted to.  The cloth is purely aesthetic and has no impact to the acoustics.  You can get very cheap burlap cloth (it would look crappy), but it would work fine.

Look in the ATS Acoustics clearance section for some deals.  They are currently selling grey burlap for $0.50/yard.

If you are under a tight budget, a 6-pack of 2" 703 FRK panels is $109 plus shipping from ATS Acoustics.  They are an excellent source and I have used them several times.  This will allow you to completely fill your front/rear corners (you can cut a panel in half to make a 2x2).  Just sit them in the corners at an angle.  They are VERY light and stiff enough that you don't need a frame.  You can use your existing 703 for 1st reflection or SBIR points.

I think the Monster Bass Traps with FlexRange limiter will probably be better, but they are significantly more expensive at $127 per panel.

Thinking about this further, the very low bass is always hard and expensive to treat.  The general broadband panels (even if they are very thick) are only average at absorbing the bass.  However, if you know the target frequency, you can get an effective panel.

We know that you have a room nodes at 55hz, 75h, 90hz, 110hz, and 111hz.  The FRK or Monster Bass Traps will effectively handle anything 75hz and above.  If you wanted to treat the 55hz problem, I would call GIK and have them make you a custom Scopus Tuned Membrane Bass Trap that is custom tuned to 55hz.  They have off-the-shelf models at T40, T70 and T100.  You would just be having them build a custom "T55" model (they will do this).  I suspect the price would be somewhere between $230 and $250 for a 2' x 2' panel.  It would probably be about 7-8" thick.  I would get a couple of them (at a minimum) and put them on the side wall floors near to the back corners (since amroc tells us that the 55Hz node is loudest on the side walls).

This is somewhat similar to my limp mass panel that is tuned to 63Hz.  I also plan to make another two limp mass panels that are tuned to 50Hz.  In my room, the 50hz also occurs on the side walls.  I will say that all my treatments have significantly increased the volume and definition of bass.  I am sitting at about the 10 foot spot in a room 17 feet long.

At 11:57 of this youtube review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqgWHPv26L0

“A lot of people are going to look at this speaker and ignore the fact that the midrange is being handled by two 6” woofers and a tweeter array… and what that means is unless you have a big powerful amplifier, you’re not going to get the kind of dynamics out of this speaker that is just going to punch you in the chest.  Some people are going to be disappointed with that, some people won’t care, but you at least need to be aware of that”

 This is also going to be more constrained if you got the 4ohm version of the Double Impact, where your 20 watt tube amp may have a little more problems handling it (i.e. it’s not going to be the same as with a high current Class A/AB amp with a big power supply).

 He also talks about how a good amount of the midrange is actually reproduced by the outer ring of tweeters (6 tweeters).