Sony PUA 7 to re-wire or not


Dear all I have a Sony PUA7 - or is it the PS-X  - actually I think it is the latter on the basis that the wires are just hanging out of the base.

I have quotes between £200 and £300 ukp to rewire it.

Is it worth doing? or should I just install a plug at the end?

Out of interest is the PUA 7 a knife-edge or gimbal design?

My intention was/is to install it onto a SONY TTS8000
lohanimal
Good tonearm for the TTS8000. I'd say go for it.
You say the wires are just hanging out of the end. Are we talking unterminated wires, or are the plugs present?

If the wires are terminated and tf the current wire is intact and working, why do you want to re-wire it?

If we’re talking bare wires, why not just terminate them or have someone do it for you? The cost ought to be a pittance compared to a full termination job.
I meant, of course, a full re-wiring job.....
Just add plugs to the ends of the wires. I have been buying and trying tonearms for 40+ years. Never felt the urge or need to change the original wire!
Paying £200 or £300 for new wire is a rip-off! Your money is better spent on some nice LPs! 
lohanimal, what wire would the arm be rewired with?  If you can get it rewired with Audio Note silver wire for anywhere near the price you quote it is most definitely worth it.  Fantastic tonearm wire that will surprise with the improvement in sound.  Discovery wire is a good alternative if not quite as good.  
+1 on Audio Note silver Litz wire, if that’s what Frogman meant. But I would not pay a small fortune for it. Audio note tends to be over pricey.
Yes, silver Litz. The Audio Note UK wire; NOT the Kondo/Audio Note Japan wire which, as Lew says, can cost a small fortune. There is a bit of mystery around what exactly differentiates the two versions of the wire.  Some claim the Kondo is the best.  I use the AN UK wire in my ET2 and I think it is fantastic.

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/audio-note-silver-internal-tone-arm-wire.html
Dear @lohanimal: My take is that first find out if that tonearm is in good operation condition and for this you have to mount it in your TT and listening to it before you can or could think in a tonearm up-date.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
@lohamal

is it really the PUA 7 sold also separately or its twin brother but poorer fitted as standard for example in the PS X40 X50 X70 turntables etc.etc.?
@rauliruegas 
@frogman 
@best-groove 

I reckon it is the one fitted to the PSX 70 because the standalone PUA 7 has a slightly different arm base and I think a connector at the base. This one was sold to me on the premise that it was a PUA 7 but the wires are just hanging out at the bottom.

That's the reason that I need to get it re-wired.

I spoke to a good tech in the UK and he actually recommended kabob's super flex as it's the most flexible wire due to being in silicone.

The alternatives are:
Incognito - silver or gold that goes from the cartridge to the phono plugs 

Is the Ps X arm worth spending getting AN or say Ikeda wire?
Is the Ps X arm worth spending getting AN or say Ikeda wire?


it would be worthwhile to have bought the arm that was sold separately, the one supplied on the turntable and a version that resembles the PUA 7 but is not the exact same thing; construction tolerances and bearings have friction different, but perhaps you are already aware of all this.
If it were identical, it would not explain why Samurai electronics on ebay never manages to sell it for some time (a few years)
Now that you have it, fix it without getting too crazy about the choice of wiring IHMO
I bought the arm on the premise that it was a pua 7 after reading into it more I realised it was ps x...😭 that said it’s gonna be a multiple arm mount plinth and I am gonna experiment with a townshend trough 
@lohanimal

n.p. Put the wiring that looks best for your budget and enjoy it. ;)


I can only hope for you that  tonearm little paid for it.
@best-groove
Oh no - it was less than £200ukp - I primarily got it as I liked the idea of the TTS 8000 having a matching Sony arm. My intention is for it to have an everyday workaday cartridge like a Denon DL103 - the others arm is a brand new Helius Orion that's gonna house a much fancier cartridge - likewise I have a few other arms too.
Seeing as I have the arm - I have to give it a little love 
   Seeing as I have the arm - I have to give it a little love

Of course!
Dear @lohanimal  :. This is the PS70:

http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-PS-X70.html

that comes mounted with the PUA7. Btw, that tonearm is not a knife-edge bearing design.

Here you can see botht versions: the stand alone and the one mounted in the TT:

http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-PUA-7.html


R.
If you look at the image of the standalone pua7 and the one mounted on the psx70 you will see they have a very different base @rauliruegas 

i think mine was lifted from a pax turntable
@lohanimal  : Yes, that's my idea too.

R.
Your arm is not the PUA-7 but a simplified cheaper version with different base and without proper armlift sony designed for their best models. I must admit the armlift mechanism on the original stand alone PUA-7 is one of the best ever (i own many tonearms but none of them have such precise armlift, this is very important to have precise armlift, especially for expensive cartridges with delicate cantilevers). There are many reasons why the arm removed from PS-X70 is 3 times cheaper than original Sony PUA-7 made for all turntables as the separate unit. The stand alove version is better, it’s rare and hard to find, expect to pay over $1k if you looking for a mint condition PUA-7, while the simplified version is very easy to find and not rare at all.

Knife-edge bearing must be avoided, some modern cartridge manufacturers do not recommend to use knife-edge bearings with their cartridges.

You can buy Cardas Litz tonearm wires for about $50 set. It’s absolutely crazy to pay 200-300 quids for 4 internal toneam wires. It’s a rip-off, especially for such a cheap version of Sony tonearm. Normally high quality vintage tonearms will impress listeners with stock internal wiring.

It is not necessary that you will prefer silver wire over copper wire, just because someone said silver is better.

How many people on here own the original stand alone PUA-7 tonearm ? I couldn’t find anyone who can comment on anything related to this particular model, except for the links to the vintageknob website.

My Sony PUA-7 is fine with stock internal toneam wiring. 
Simply in the interest of helping the OP who apparently is learning about tonearms and tonearm wire options, I would point out that no one has said silver is better. The AN wire is a fantastic wire; it simply happens to be silver. There are great copper wires. In my experience, the AN is an infinitely better wire than the Cardas, which happens to be copper. It is also an exceptionally flexible wire which can only benefit a tonearm with possibly not the greatest bearings. Worth the extra money? Personal call. I think a better question is will there be an audible improvement in sound? I would say, definitely; and if one considers what many spend two hundred bucks on with very questionable results.....
The issue when 2 arms are actually not the same
can also be found with the Micro Seiki MA-505.

When MS sold table models including this arm 
it was actually not the same arm when bought separately.

No guessing which one is superior.




Dear @totem395  : Could be with MS but not with this Sony tonearm where in this link you can read is the PUA-7. The only differences with the stand alone version is the tonearm mount base and the arm lift and that's all, the tonearm design is exactly the same no doubt about. The information in the link is very clear and only the Sony tonearm designer could says a different " tale ":

http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-PS-X70.html

as @lohanimal  pointed out his tonearm was lifted from that Sony TT model.

Btw, @frogman is rigth the AN is the best internal tonearm wire we can use but before pull the triger the OP needs to be sure the tonearm is in perfect operation condition and if it's then is worth to invest in the AN rewiring. All vintage tonearms must be up-dated with a top today internal re-wiring due that the oldest original wire is totally outdated after 20-40 years. Certainly in those old times just does not exist a wire with the quality level as the AN, no way.

As afact the internal wire quality level in any tonearm design is extremely critical to preserve " intact " the valuable and sensitive recorded signal information that the cartridge pick-up from the LP.

We all know that at each single link in the whole system audio chain that the cartridge signal always is more or less " heavy " degraded so we have to take care at each single link and we have to remember that after the transducer/cartridge the first degradation link is that tonearm internal wire ( along the headshell wire/conectors. ) and the audio signal that must pass through the tonearm internal wire has to run on it not for 3cms. but a lot more and at each fraction mm. the signal is suffering degradation and we don't want that and need to put at minimum that signal degradation.

AN makes a paramount quality level differences for the better. Yes, manufactured with silver that's way better conductor than cooper and that at that extremely critical link we need nothing but the best because the information we lost in that internal wire we just can't recovery in any way, it's losted for ever ! !

R.




How many people on here own the original stand alone PUA-7 tonearm ? I couldn’t find anyone who can comment on anything related to this particular model, except for the links to the vintageknob website.


I have the rare PUA 7 already for a different months, but I have not yet had the opportunity to install it on a plinth and connect a cartridge.
I prefer not to pronounce incorrect information until the time of the test.
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Dear @totem395  : only for your records this is a second source that confirm too that the PS-X70 tonearm is the PUA-7 and not an inferior design.
Sony can't do that with a TT that in those times seen a fierce competition against Denon/ Pioneer, Kenwood and the like and if we take a look to its specs even today is really competitive:

https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sony/ps-x70.shtml   


Btw, here the up date of the PUA-7 :

http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-PUA-9.html

and the link is a third source about.

R.
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The issue when 2 arms are actually not the same
can also be found with the Micro Seiki MA-505.

When MS sold table models including this arm
it was actually not the same arm when bought separately.

No guessing which one is superior.  

Exactly what i'm trying to say. It's a good example of the obvious difference between something that comes as a package deal with turntable and something that offered as a separate unit for audiophiles for use with any turntable (from the different manufacturers). Micro Seiki did  it many times with their OEM tonearms, one of them is Luxman TA-1, same name, but two completely different version made. The stand alone version with removable armtube and stabilizer is so much better engineered and pimped up compared to the simplified version that comes with the table only. The price difference between two versions is huge, but the model number is the same. 


Only blind man can't see two different versions of PUA-7, the cheaper and simplified version is the one that offered with SONY turntable only. Some people who comment on here may never had the original PUA-7 i am talking about. No questions that the arms are different and better design. 

And only a much better version has been offered alone in the box for high price. This tonearm is better engineered. Anyone can look at the armlift (see how it works?) and at the mounting base, this is what completely missed or simplified in the cheaper version. I have this PUA-7 and my previous SONY arm was the 1600S (NOS). 

The PUA-7 has its own geometry, different alignment method and their own Sony protractor. Stand alone PUA-7 version is 4 times more expensive than those arms removed from the turntables. 

I use mine with stock internal tonearm wiring. 


different alignment method and their own Sony protractor.

Huuu, what am I missing, is it so really essential?

Do you by chance also have the template to center the exact point of the tonearm to be fixed on a virgin plinth?
Huuu, what am I missing, is it so really essential?

I think SONY engineers expected better sound with their own protractor/alignment method. Pretty common for japanese manufacturers.


Do you by chance also have the template to center the exact point of the tonearm to be fixed on a virgin plinth?

Yes, same template designed to point the mounting holes in the plinth (one big and one very small).


Yes, same template designed to point the mounting holes in the plinth (one big and one very small).

Would it be possible to privately obtain a scan of your template for my personal use?
I would be very grateful to you,I don't have this item and I wouldn't know how to place the arm exactly on the virgin plinth.



@best-groove we can try, i have to find my scanner first to make sure it works. 
@chakster 

thank you very much ... you would be a real gentleman.
Dear @best-groove : Look, not only Sony but Technics or Dynavector comes with its dedicated protractor. Almost all tonearms comes with.

The PUA-7 is no exception. According to SONY manual the P2S distance is 235mm and the overhang around 14mm.
These Sony information means that the alignment of your tonearm is not something " special ". Sony decided ( as almost all japanese vintage tonearms. ) to use Stevenson alignment that's the worst kind of alignment with the higher tracking distortions and tracking error over all the LP surface but the last 3mm. Go figure ! ! ! 

That's what you want to listen? Higher everywhere distortions?. 

If I was you I will use any other protractor but Sony one and choose between Lôfgren A ( Baerwald ) or Lôfgren B where both kind of alignments has way lower any kind of distortions.

Already discussed in many other threads that Stevenson is a universal ABERRATION and a great MISTAKE for we true music lovers and true audiophiles take it seriously. For me is a big " joke ".

But, is up to you.


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
@rauliruegas

Perhaps I have not explained myself correctly; I don’t need a template to correctly position the cartridge on the shell, but I need to use a tool to position the whole PUA-7 on a new plinth.
Sony PUA-7 method is not Stevenson
Technics method is also not Stevenson but very close

Template is very helpful because the user must drill not only a big hole for tonearm shaft, but also an additional small hole for armbase to prevent rotation of the armbase while the vta on the fly mechanism is in use. 

 
Dear @best-groove : Good.

Btw, my take with all those vintage japanese tonearms is that as me in those times they did not understand very well the critical importance of true/real alignment accuracy and obviously ( like me. ) did not understand in deep the advantages of Löfgren A and B and the terrible disadvantages of Stevenson alignment.

Before I really understand in deep thw whole alignment subject and to understand in deep each one of the different ( normal ) alignments I used the protractors that came my Technics, SAEC, Dynavector and other japanese tonearms.
But every one has the " rigth " to learn and a few years ago I learned. Today exist several " audiophiles " that just don’t understand in deep the whole subject and I think that perhaps they will never do or maybe yes, who knows.

Examples: Technics EPA-100 by its specs the effective length is 250mm and according Stevenson alignment the overhang should be 14.593mm instead the Technics specs of 15mm and in the offset angle the correct value is 20.824 instead 21 and the P2S is wrong too. Yes, nearest but non-accurated.

In the PUA-7 is worst according Sony specs: overhang should be 14.617mm instead the 14mm in specs.
SAEC is the same but the 8000 model.

But what really confirm their " misunderstanding " on the whole alignment subject is that they choosed Stevenson alignment and additional out of accuracy.

Anyway, good that you finally will mount your PUA-7.

R.
Saec is a special case; has always made the owners of the whole world crazy by giving only one value of null point at 5mm.
Things not to believe!
@best-groove : SAEC was a " disaster " including in the 8000 model. Not near to any of the " standard " alignments.

R.
@rauliruegas

Saec = master of disaster LOL

Is it possible that a miracle is needed to put these arms in the right position?

And once placed correctly can they be considered "the best"?
Dear @best-groove : You can make the SAEC/cartridge set up using Löfgren A or B in exactly the same way you do with any other tonearm/cartridge.

The " best " ?.  Well exist audiophiles that like the double knife bearing design, even today some of them are enthusiast of the vintage 3009 and 3012 by SME that comes with knife bearing kind of design.

SAEC is very good looking tonearm but for me certainly not the " best ".

R.
^ "Knife-edge" seems to be a generic term with two connotations:

A) arms moves up/down on a sharp blade; it moves easily with minimal resistance and it’s great in that respect; basically, it replaced Uni-Pivot with a straight line, keeping the low resistance but adding horizontal stability.

And B) they’re not very good.

So "knife-edge" as a concept has a bad reputation. 

But not all knife-edge bearings are the same. The knife-edge bearings used by SME and SAEC are very different and can’t really be compared. Just looking at the bearings on their on shows extreme difference, not just in appearance but in action. SAEC’s "double" knife edge is genius, once you understand how it works. The rest of the SAEC arm I worked on wasn’t even close to the high standard of its bearing.

Jelco has introduced a new knife-edge design. I’ve only seen good, detailed close-up photos, but it’s radically different than either SME/SAEC and looks brilliant. SME’s design, from 60 years ago, is the simplest and has the most "slop". Later improvements by other were total departures from the primitive SME design, and eliminated slop.
@lohanimal : 
Please let us hear your impressions of the PUA-7. 
My current project is a bit of a clone of yours: A TTS-8000 being restored in Germany right now will be mounted in a TB-2000 plinth with my Helius Omega Ruby as one of the tonearms. I only need to figure out which other tonearm to use...I love this hobby ;-)