You would do me and us all a favour if you listened to Ypsilon before buying anything. By many accounts, including Michael Fremer's, it is one of the finest brands available. Yes, their 100 wt/ch integrated is $25k new. And Gryphon Diablo 300 is another one to hear. Both designers are highly respected.
Sonic qualities of SET output tubes?
Can you readily identify a 300B, 2A3, 805, 211, etc., amp’s sound with your eyes closed most of the time?
If so, I’sure would like to hear from you.
Amplifier design and the technology utilized within its confines decides the ‘voice’ or influence it will yield as much or more so than merely the output tubes the designer has chosen to use.
I get that part emphatically. One must hear the amp regardless the type of output tube technology on hand.
And yes, some Pentodes and Tetrodes are used as Triodes but are not indeed triodes by their specific architecture. That’s OK, just focus on their use as Triodes herein, please.
There are however certain tube types, irrespective of vintage which have basic undeniable sonic colors or characteristics, apart from their electrical aspects which keep attracting people to amps which use this or that tube in its output stage.
Some love 211s. some adore 300Bs. Some love EL34s configured to run as Triodes. I have an affinity for the latter. So far anyway. This topic could change my mind.
Has your own experience informed you what this or that output tube’s natural flavor regularly announces itself to be so you can have a reasonable expectation of its general presentation?
What sonic attribute continually attracts you to a particular SET tube design, 300B or some others?
Or, conversely, what is it about the sound that would bring you to covet a 211 amp over a 2A3, for example.
Why as another example, would you pick a 2A3 amp over one using 805s or 300B, 211, etc. or vice versa?
Removing ‘vintages’ and electronic or electrical qualities from the argument, what sonic attributes for the more popular S.E.T. amp output tubes have you determined seem to persist in their particular DNA?
I’m asking for input from those SET tube devotees to lend their experiences and knowledge on the subject of what tube sounds like what irrespective of the SET application, generally speaking.
My goal is to try getting a better feel for which SET Tube amp design, if any, I’d want to pursue and possibly invest heavily into going forward as the soul of a new system.
Tremendous thanks to all!
If so, I’sure would like to hear from you.
Amplifier design and the technology utilized within its confines decides the ‘voice’ or influence it will yield as much or more so than merely the output tubes the designer has chosen to use.
I get that part emphatically. One must hear the amp regardless the type of output tube technology on hand.
And yes, some Pentodes and Tetrodes are used as Triodes but are not indeed triodes by their specific architecture. That’s OK, just focus on their use as Triodes herein, please.
There are however certain tube types, irrespective of vintage which have basic undeniable sonic colors or characteristics, apart from their electrical aspects which keep attracting people to amps which use this or that tube in its output stage.
Some love 211s. some adore 300Bs. Some love EL34s configured to run as Triodes. I have an affinity for the latter. So far anyway. This topic could change my mind.
Has your own experience informed you what this or that output tube’s natural flavor regularly announces itself to be so you can have a reasonable expectation of its general presentation?
What sonic attribute continually attracts you to a particular SET tube design, 300B or some others?
Or, conversely, what is it about the sound that would bring you to covet a 211 amp over a 2A3, for example.
Why as another example, would you pick a 2A3 amp over one using 805s or 300B, 211, etc. or vice versa?
Removing ‘vintages’ and electronic or electrical qualities from the argument, what sonic attributes for the more popular S.E.T. amp output tubes have you determined seem to persist in their particular DNA?
I’m asking for input from those SET tube devotees to lend their experiences and knowledge on the subject of what tube sounds like what irrespective of the SET application, generally speaking.
My goal is to try getting a better feel for which SET Tube amp design, if any, I’d want to pursue and possibly invest heavily into going forward as the soul of a new system.
Tremendous thanks to all!
Showing 16 responses by inna
I thought I would just mention tube and hybrid amps that I would want to audition first: LAMM, Ypsilon, VAC, Atma-Sphere, Wavac, Allnic, Jadis, Octave, CAT. Ralph is right - pay attention to the sound not the design. You really need to know what kind of sound you are looking for and the compromises you are prepared to take, and if you already know that - it's both easier and more difficult. But give horns a listen too if you can unless they are out of the question. In addition to Avant-Garde I would listen to Acapella. As I said in another thread, $35k for the entire set-up including cables is tough. Yes, I understand you might consider spending more if you see that it's worth it. Some people save $500 on cables after spending $25k on equipment, not wise. |
Most music is in the midrange and to hear it all clearly as was recorded you need full or near full range speakers. Unless you only listen to violin solo perhaps. You also need powerful, life like dynamics. Lamm's SET watts are said to be the most powerful SET watts anywhere, they will drive some dynamic speakers well - you wouldn't have to consider horns only. Give them a listen if you can, if you do and like them a lot - don't call me and Bill names, OK? They are expensive, even used. Vladimir Lamm is good to deal with. Anyway, you probably need a list of a dozen or so amps to audition. Of course, it's an amp/speakers unit, but still - do you prefer to do speakers first or amp first approach? I myself at this level would try both, in the end I would find the right sound. |
You can tell that this is a great sound, though the base probably doesn't go too low and that it lacks the ultimate authority of much bigger systems. But for a normal medium size rooms it should be just about perfect. However, it's analog source and an excellent one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ8YIow9m2s&t=419s |
So I thought. Those recording engineers from seventies, what did they think they were doing? Best jazzrock albums, starting with Bitches Brew, were very poorly recorded and probably mastered too. Japanese pro records are the best but still so much distortion. Pink Floyd is not particularly good either. |
Yeah, Ralph confirmed what I have always felt. SET amps are not for most of us, this includes cost. Low impedance speakers is not how it should be. Ralph, besides Classic Audio, what would you recommend to use with your amps? Also, do you believe that short length Mogami RCA cables are just as good as XLR? I mean 2497 wire. |
Ralph, thank you, now I got it. Yeah, relatively limited speakers choice. Number of tubes would not be a problem for me unless each cost $1k and lasted only for a year. It's a bit more difficult to do amp first approach than speakers first approach. But with Atma-Sphere and LAMM I would still do exactly that. |