Solid State vs. Tubes - What if Transistors came first?


What do you guys think?

If transistors came first, and then decades later tubes were invented, would we have any tube amps we would call high end?

Wouldn’t they all fail to reach the height of performance and transparency set by transistor amps?

Best,

E

P.S. I love Conrad Johnson. I'm just wondering how  much of our arguments have to do with timing. 
erik_squires
Well, I believe that John Curl went into a very enlightening discussion on how easily the standards can be gamed, not that that's happening in this case, but specifications are a lot more pliable than most understand. Again, I don't know these manufacturers, but 50wpc rms into 8 ohms is 100wpc rms into 4 ohms, and 50wpc rms is 100wpc, to name a few ways to spin things that I am familiar with. New Sensor claims 2 x 33 watts max for their tubes, 2 x 30 being the norm, so 50wpc gives you a nice cushion but 60wpc is within spec. Perhaps you ought to be asking those manufacturers how they can get more out of a tube than the manufacturer of the tubes says is reasonably possible. OTOH, if you listen to Kevin Deal of Upscale Audio, within a particular tube line, acceptable specifications greatly vary, so presumably they could be buying only tubes that exceed specifications. I personally would consider that to be deceptive unless they insist that those outputs are only obtainable using tubes sold by them. Furthermore, the best of the best tubes fade, so be it 100wpc, or 50wpc, as tubes age, your output capability will drop!
I’m not sure how tubes are rated, and am by no means a tube amp expert, but if you attach the tubes in bridged mode, instead of push-pull you could get 2x the voltage, or 4x the power. So assuming this is done, it seems quite plausible to me that you could get 60 watts RMS out of a pair of 33 watt (peak) tubes.

The proof is in the listening however. The difference in dB between 60 and 40 watts is only 1.76 dB. Point being, things look a lot more different in wattage than they sound.
The wattages quoted, 30 something, is pertube, in a pushpull amp you'll double that.
Oh, so bridged mode allows a 50% increase without exceeding distortion performance standards.  I forgot about the RM-200 which I also liked and heard many years ago.  I doubt that Kevin Deal is selecting tubes which only exceed specs as many people reported excellent results with NOS and other brands of current tubes as well.  I just thought that pushing the tubes harder, if that's what 100+ watt per pair might due, would lessen their effective life.  I know several friends with Audio Research gear of the 1990s/2000s who decry the short lifespan of their output tubes.  

My output tubes are run conservatively (6-6BG6) to produce 125w.  So cool that the transformers are just barely warm to the touch after 3 hours of dynamic music listening.  They last about 3,000 hours (luckily they are NOS and cost only $7 a tube).
 I owned a lot of amplifiers with krell being among them. I started out with solid state but once I found SET I changed my thinking entirely.   Lower powered triode tube is definitely my preference with much better Soundstaging and imaging then I've heard from the best solid state.  Also tube seems to convey the emotion of a performance better than solid state, I'm not sure what does this.  Then I tried out OTL and definitively preferred that over SET.  To my ears it seems to combine the best of solid state and tubes.  But you do need proper easy to drive speakers for OTL and SET. 
 But I still run solid state for my bass amps which go up to 60 Hz.