So many great golden era DD tables out there, what do you recommend for $1000?

Vintage DD for $1000 with plinth and tonearm? I think it’s pretty tough, but much more realistic without plinth and tonearm if you want something special.

Technics SP-20 from the mid 70’s was a budget version of SP-10mkII, exactly the same size and shape, but without external power supply. Simplified DD motor. But look at the finishing, simply amazing. I like this black finishing. This is a rare model. My previous two samples now in use in the hood and friends are happy. Custom plinth and some nice vintage arm will make this model so cool and still not expensive.

And if you want all in one under $1k then only SL-10 comes to my mind. The SL-15 most likely will be over $1k. I’m pretty sure refurbished samples must be great, there is a phonostage inside.

I can’t ignore a budget version of PD-444 made by Luxman, this PD-441 is much smaller, but it has the same decent DD motor! I’m a fan of big and heavy (metal) PD-444 (not 441), but 441 is much cheaper and you can find it without arm under $1k

The original DP-80 plinth is pretty decent, it does not looks like a cheap plinth from that era, the finishing is nice, the color is nice. Much better than any Victor stock plinth for example (imo). Adding AT-616 pneumatic footers is a must for such high quality machine. No questions that DP-80 is a nice DD turntable, but i just want to say that stock plinth is also very nice (if the condition is NOS like mine). Here is an image from the manual with DA-401 tonearm, i was shocked how good this arm can reproduce music on my Luxman with Grado XTZ. Quickly became my favorite tonearm for high-ish compliance MI/MM carts. The only problem is a price tag: with some nice tonearm on original plinth it can be $2-3k easily for complete Denon turntable in perfect condition. 

produce a mat made of an animal skin is horrible, would you use a human skin instead ? 

I’m late to the thread, with another vote for the DP80.

@bimasta in which plinth do you use it ? Just curious 

@lewm @bimasta the Victor headshell is nothing special, just standard. What they call "Chucking Lock Headplug" is also standard SME type.

When i’m talking about counterweight sag i mean defective samples with 20 or even 45 degree sag down of the counterweight and this is not normal (my advice to stay away from them), look at my arm and see what was the idea when this arm was designed, this is the best sample i have ever seen (unused). The counterweight on my long UA-7082 is the same. So when you have a perfect samples on hands you realize what is good and bad (compared to defective samples). The problem with defective samples became obvious with heavy MC cartridges, in this case the original victor subweight must be screwed to the armtube on the back, to balance such cartridges the counterweight position is not close to the armshaft and if the rubber part is weak then it's a disaster! 

@bimasta

This is Victor UA-7045 tonearm and standard SME type Victor headshell from this arm. Great tonearm if the counterweight is not sag down as we can see on so many used samples. BUT This is a perfect NOS sample. I’ve been using at least 3 different samples of the UA-7045 and now using UA-7082 instead.

@bimasta

I think it’s unique to those Victor arms, and a fine improvement. Only a "small" difference and invisible from outside — though an "end-on" view shows a difference. And they had the sense to use the standard SME h’shell, always available, while others designed their own "unique" shells — they had a firmer grip (screw-down et al) but so hard to find now.

The headshell and tonearm chucking lock for the headshell on Victor 7045/7082 is just like on FR 64s and Lustre 801 tonearms. No difference.  

@bimasta

You’re right Chakster. But the difference is inside. The "normal" lock clamps four jaws tight — like, as I said, a drill chuck, tight as you want. Part of its brilliance is that it looks normal, and accepts normal headshells which are so easy to get. No endless quest for one-of-kind headshells. And it solves many of the problems with the early SME — it should have been a prototype but became standard.

I can’t see a four jaws only inside the headshell look on my stock Technics SL1210mkII tonearm. This one indeed looks different compared to my Victor UA-7082. But the rest of the arms i am using in main system are all have 4 jaws inside the chuck lock (just like the drill lock) like the Victor 7045/7082.

Just curious who is that imbecile who reported the moderator about my last post about Victor tonearm?

@hagtech  

Is there a reason golden age DD turntables became golden age? Or conversely, why did the high-end move to belt-drive?

Thoughts?

Could you please recall Japanese turntable manufacturer who has moved to Belt Drive from Direct Drive ? I can't remember anyone. 

Do you own a Direct Drive turntable to compare it to a belt Drive at least to confirm your statement for yourself ? Do you actually hear any problem when you're playing records on high-end Direct Drive turntable ?  

Personally i have never ever experienced any single problem with high-end Direct Drive turntables such as Technics SP-10mkII, SP-20, Luxman PD-444, Denon DP-80 ... even my Victor TT-101 is working. I have no idea what Mr.Fremer is talking about. Probably a $3k vintage Direct Drive owner should buy a $6k modern belt drive instead pretending for upgrade? In Fremer's wold it will be a $60k belt drive, right ? I will never do that and i can't imagine anyone, who own a High-End DD, trading it for a belt drive. 

Belt Drive, say it again. OMG   

What i see in Analog Planet videos from various High-End shows is the ugliest belt drive turntables ever, for insane prices!  

P.S. I want to remind you that his review for new Technics DD was very positive. 

Of course, if you are a DJ doing scratching, then DD is the only way to go. You need that torque. :)

@hagtech

First of all we’re not talking about $300 Direct Drive turntables here to serve "wanna be a dj" persons in their bedroom. These turntables may have some problems you have mentioned. But please do not mix together professional niche and high-end.

The finest new Direct Drive turntable SL1000R from Technics cost $18k in USA today, and it is made in Japan. Here is a thread about it. This is reference class Direct Drive for modern High-End market and i doubt anyone in Europe and USA can compete with it nowadays, especially at this price! Matsushita is a giant company! The reason why Japan is the leader in Direct Drive technology is probably because they have been doing it for such a long time.

You will not find any single problem you’re talking about in earlier Technics SP-10mkII and mkIII from the 70s/80s. Even 30 years later those vintage Technics SP-10mkIII is one of the best DD ever made and still cost a lot.

Not every top class Direct Drive have a high torque like Technics motor, for example the Victor TT-101, Luxman PD-444, Denon DP-80 does not have such a high torque and immediate start, but they are also amazing turntables for audiophiles.

Direct Drive is indeed a japanese tradition and they are doing it better than anybody else.

Dear @uberwaltz :

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DENON-DP-60L-Direct-Drive-TURNTABLE-WORKING/153428377243?_trkparms=aid%3D333200%26algo%3DCOMP.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D59957%26meid%3D96c1c6ffbcb8455088b1cd60d6bdb8bc%26pid%3D100008%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D383129488065%26itm%3D153428377243%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219

Haha. As always, "best recommendations" from our Mexican member to buy from Japanese ebay seller who can’t even speak english and who has 13 negative feedbacks only last month and about 50 negative feedbacks over the year!

file:///C:/Users/Sylvia/Downloads/ve_denon_dp-60l_brochure_en_imp_scan.pdf

R.

This is the best link ever, directly to his hard drive "C"

C'mon Uber, don't wait, you have to buy immediately, it's approved by Raul. 

Assembled this system in 2018 for a friend locally.
He’s leaving the country and willing to sell his analog system this year.
Anyone who need a perfect Victor UA-7045 tonearm for $750 feel free to contact me.

There is a decent AT20SLa cartridge, Stax headshell. Turntable is very rare mint condition Technics SP-20 (black one). I’m gonna help him to sell all these.