Congrats, Maudidj. Making a decision with all the choices available and very little data is difficult. |
Robob, "Not much to resonate there". What about the suspension itself? By definition, it resonates at a certain frequency. |
Dear Mauidj, If you can muster the courage, go ahead and buy the Kenwood L07D that is for sale on Audiogon at an absurd low price. And that one was completely serviced by the best possible person to do it. (I know, because he has done two L07Ds for me.) The L07D will be..... better, and the tonearm is included. Yes, it is a direct-drive turntable, one of the best every made. If you want to hear realistic piano reproduction, you cannot beat a good direct- or idler-drive. This is not to say that a top notch belt-drive cannot also do the trick, but not for $3000 (asking price for L07D). |
.."way better"... No. Not even "any better".
Try then a well developed and tweaked Lenco idler-drive, also for much less money. I know you won't do that; I am just trying to help you think outside the box. |
Dear Inna, I am beginning to think you don't think I think outside the box. Somehow, this does not trouble me. Obviously, we all live in our own boxes and escape to novel thinking is different for each of us. I hate the phrase "think outside the box" anyway; it was clever once but now it has become just as much of a cliche' as thinking inside the box. (Name is "LewM", by the way.)
The fact is that I have been a devoted audiophile since the early 70s. I lived through all the fads in turntable design and construction. I was totally sold on belt-drive up until a few years ago. In fact, I never owned anything but belt-drives, starting with an AR turntable in the 70s. Then I heard a Lenco at a friend's house. That experience stimulated me to buy a nice condition Lenco L75 and to start to modify it per Lenco Heaven, etc. The Lenco completely blew away my then Nottingham Analog Hyperspace, which I still consider to be a great belt drive turntable. After that, I got interested in vintage direct-drive turntables, slate as plinth material, etc, etc. I have no beef with belt-drive turntables per se, but I get performance out of my tweaked Lenco, my SP10 Mk3, and my L07D that continues to please me and is far more cost-effective than buying a belt-drive turntable at the price point that might even dream of competing with what I own.
Yep, just a different box. Very sorry for the OT rant. The L07D needs an RFI/EMI shield between the platter and the platter mat, in order to really shine, by the way, which is why the OP might not have appreciated it back in the late 80s. I made one out of TI Shield, for $40. |
I don't know anything about Artisan Fidelity. Is that an idler-drive turntable? In my initial idler frenzy, I bought a 301 grease-bearing chassis at about the same time I bought the Lenco. After I heard the Lenco, and realizing that upgrading the Garrard might cost a few thousand or more bucks and not sound any better than the Lenco, I sold the Garrard chassis without ever having heard it. So, I cannot claim to know that the Lenco is better or worse than a similarly upgraded Garrard 301/401. (I refuse to form any opinion unless I have had something in my own home system for audition.) That first Lenco had a Jean Nantais wood plinth. I subsequently sold it and moved on to make my own slate plinth for a nice used L75 I found on eBay. On my Lenco, I use a "PTP" chassis and an aftermarket bearing made by "Jeremy" in England. (All of the relevant info can be found on Lenco Heaven.) Actually, until I got into this craziness, I was like you; I very rarely ever changed my system. Maybe once every 4-5 years I would replace one component or another with something new. I never before 2-3 years ago owned more than one tt at a time or more than one tonearm or cartridge. For 35 years I have favored tube preamps and OTL tube amplifiers mated with ESL or other planar speakers. Still do. I am pretty boring and predictable in that regard, like Inna says. |
Great, but only if you use silver USB connectors. |
Dear Inna, No. I have never heard SME or Brinkmann, but the Balance (belt) or the Bardo (direct-drive) would be on my short list of tt's to buy, if I ever need another one. (What I mean to say is, "never" in my own home system.) I spent quite a few hours listening to The Beat at RMAF last October, in Steve Dobbins' room. Again, in isolation such an audition does not mean much (the ancillary equipment was also first rate), but I did fall in love a bit. I can only hope that my SP10 Mk3 in slate and cherry plinth sounds nearly as good. Sadly, I think the price for The Beat is more like $26K, last I heard. |
Dev, Since I had decided to "make do" with my SP10 Mk3 in an elaborate plinth, I was not a serious contender for The Beat. Ergo I did not really make a lot of effort to determine its cost, so don't take my word for it. I do not in fact think that Steve has a "dealer network" for The Beat, since he himself is the dealer. The "real" price may well be only $20K, for all I know. Based on what I heard and the prices of similar level competition, that is not at all unreasonable. For example, the quote of $26K may have included a Reed tonearm and the Allnic Puritas cartridge, which sounded divine riding in the Reed on The Beat. You might want to speak to Mike Lavigne who owns one, if you are at all interested.
Don't tell me you own a Veyron (which really means "do tell me"). I saw only one in my life, parked next to a swank hotel in Geneva, Switzerland. It is far more beautiful and elegant in reality than in photos. |
Dev,
"SP10 MK3 is a wonderful table and I would never suggest different but as you know it really does take a bit of effort and money to get the best out of it."
Yes, and I have spent both (effort and money). You may view a photo of the "finished" product in my system portfolio. A slate plinth 2.5 inches thick is bolted to a solid cherry and baltic birch base, to provide constrained damping. The Mk3 chassis is bolted through both sections, from below. Within the wood base is housed a large brass block. A threaded brass rod runs through the block to contact the underside of the bearing housing, a la Albert's plinths. The whole shebang sits on a carefully contrived suspension. The tonearm board is also made of slate, but I also have spares made of aluminum, and brass is planned. The Beat would be outside my budget, is all I meant to say. I prefer the fun of DIY in a perverse way.
By the way, the Mk3 was NOS; nevertheless I had it fully serviced by Bill Thalmann who also does Albert's tables. Bill found several leaky electrolytic capacitors in the power supply, despite or perhaps because of its virgin status. (Charging up an electrolytic periodically will extend its lifespan a bit, compared to its shelf life.) I am sure you would not leave your Veyron sitting around idle. |
Yeah, sorry. Got carried away. |
Albert is able to speak for himself. He is a successful professional photographer who has a long history of interest in truly high end audio, as an end-user. I believe you can see his current system described and listed on this site. A few years ago he made a splash here by his decision to replace his Walker turntable with a Technics SP10 MkII in a wood plinth. He now manufactures and sells plinths for the Mk II and Mk 3, and it seems that he can also source MkII's and Mk3's and have them cosmetically restored and serviced a priori in order to deliver a complete package, in some cases. (Both are scarce, and I don't know where Albert finds them.) He is also an Allnic dealer. Basically, he is a good guy who has passion for this hobby and has turned it into a bit of a business. He is no one's guru, as far as I know. Superb photographer, too. |
Actually, I think it was his single action (rather than any stated opinions) of preferring the Technics to the Walker in his home system that gained Albert a lot of notoriety here. I love my SP1 Mk3, but I do not assume that it would be superior to the Walker table in my own system. I would have to hear that to believe it. I have heard the Walker in other systems and it is remarkably good, too. |
Mauidj, Well, you asked, so I will answer. The Mk2 and Mk3 are quite different from each other. I know it sounds like the Mk3 would be just a later version of the Mk2, but that is not so. Both tables were marketed at the same time, although the Mk3 came along last, at the end of the "vinyl era" and dawn of "perfect sound forever". To start with, the Mk3 has the highest torque motor ever used in a turntable sold to the public, with the possible exception of the Denon DP100, which was a Japan-only product for Denon. The Mk3 has more elaborate motor control than the Mk2 and a 22-lb platter, also very heavy for a direct-drive. It also has all its electronics housed in an outboard chassis; the main chassis supports only the huge motor and the platter.
The Mk2 has an 8-lb platter and a less powerful motor, notwithstanding the fact that it is also a great turntable when properly set up. The outboard Power Supply feeds three regulated voltages to the remainder of the electronics, which are onboard the main chassis along with the motor. The Mk2 is right up there with or ahead of any other vintage direct-drive of that day, was considered a high end product, got raves from HP, etc.
In their day, the Mk3 cost about twice as much as the Mk2 (about $2800 vs about $1500). Ergo, fewer Mk3s were sold, and they are quite a bit more rare than the Mk2. Also, those that own a Mk3 tend to keep it, which adds to the rarity of finding one for sale. Many Mk2s and Mk3s were used and abused by radio station DJ's because of their incredible rapid start and stop capabilities and their durability. |
I have not the foggiest idea for what Albert charges if you buy from him a restored Mk3 in a custom plinth. Probably "a lot". But there is more than one way to arrive at your desired endpoint, if that is what you desire. (Meaning you can watch eBay, etc, until you find your own Mk3, have Bill Thalmann work on it, source a plinth on your own, etc.) In taking the worry out of it, Albert is performing a service and understandably wants to be compensated. But please don't refer to it as an "old table". It would be good as new, and nothing new is built like that. Nothing below around $100K, that is. |
Dear Inna,
Keep your shirt on. What I said was with regard to quality of construction. Period. I do not now, nor have I ever said it was "the best" turntable in existence for under $100K. I have not even had mine long enough to form an opinion, except to say it is very good. Why does this innocent discussion make you so angry that you feel the need to use words like "bullshit"?
I only make judgements based on what I hear in my house on my system, and only after many weeks or months of listening. Therefore I will never be in a position to say that anything is the best anything. Please do not take this as an apology, by the way. |
Guys, FYI there are 3 or 4 turntables on this crazy market that sell for a bit under to way over $100K. (I think the Clearaudio behemoth sells for $250K.) That's why I grabbed that figure out of the air. Yes, I agree that those prices are absurd. |
