Golden Ear makes some smaller powered subs that are quite effective.
Small, Effective Subwoofers?
In a recent speaker thread that I started there were lots of suggestions of adding a couple of subwoofers to my system. As with my speakers (Legacy Signature SEs) I have little room to place subwoofers They will need to go directly to the left or directly to the right of the main speakers. To the left the maximum height would be 12". 12’ would be great on the outside as well, but I could squeeze a slightly bigger unit in there. Would two 12" subs be sufficient here, or would they be too small for this set up?
If 12’ is OK, do you all have any reasonably priced suggestions as did @nevada_matt withe his 2-10 offering from Tekton. I would have never found those on my own, thanks Matt!
I would be super open to some used subs as a cost savings measure here.
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The SVS 3000 Micro has been getting good reviews and is 10.9" high. Not to be pedantic, but you do know? Subs often are used to help fill bass nulls, and the absolute worst placement for that is adjacent to the main speakers. |
If you really like your speakers, but aren’t liking the bass, then small ported subs would likely give you the type of bass that you are looking for. My speakers pretty much mimic your speakers 3dB down point for bass. I really like the high level input. People argue against omitting the upper limiting crossover, but for our speakers this isn’t an issue. My RELs are fast and provide a tight low end. I’ve got the crossover set very low, so the main speakers supply most of the bass. Wilson designed my speaker’s crossover, and I didn’t want to interfere with their design by adding a high level crossover on the subs. That said, my listing room is over a two car garage, and the bass was crazy to subdue, so I had to work at placing a number of bass traps, heavy carpet with heavy pad and a large couch. I’m listening to vinyl so I also needed to add a super heavy equipment stand, and all this combine to subdue the room interaction caused by these additional subwoofers. |
I added two of these a couple months ago, they are fantastic; Bowers and Wilkins ASW608. I believe you would be very please adding two subs to your setup. Good luck with your search. https://www.bowerswilkins.com/en-us/product/loudspeakers/asw608
Cheers, Scott
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@erik_squires - Thanks Eric, did you read Legacy’s response to this elsewhere? It also sounds like subwoofer placement is going to be a problem for me too. |
I have 12" dual subs, F12s from Rythmick and they work flawlessly with my PBN Montana XPS speakers which are 4 ohms. Plenty enough bass with the right amount of slam and definition. However, FYI, to obtain a non overly booming sound they had to be placed on opposite walls as you can see in my system. When they were placed by the speakers I would have this huge earth shaking tremor in the rear of the room. Just pointing it out because you say you have space issues for subs placement. |
Some of the best subs are front firing and meant to be placed between the main loudspeakers. There are many reports of better imaging in this configuration. Many large statement systems use this set-up. |
@navyachts I love SVS subs, and I own a pair of the SB-4000, but i have to respectfully disagree with folks recommending the SVS Micro 3000. The specs look appealing, but I’ve had two friends who have owned them and they just don’t go that low, and they will not be sufficient in your room. The 12” you mention is quite small. Are you sure you can’t afford just a little bit more? What is causing the space limitation? I think the regular SVS SB-3000 would do well, but you the Micro 3000 probably won’t add much more than what the Signature SE can already deliver. |
+1 @blisshifi SB3000 Micro won’t get it done — physics is physics. Asking a 12” sub(s) to augment a speaker that already hits a solid 22Hz is a tough, and maybe impossible, ask. Whatever’s limiting your sub to 12”, I hope it’s something worth the sacrifice because it’s big. If it’s that big of a problem and given your limitations on subwoofer size, maybe it’s worth switching to the Focus despite the hassle/cost. |
Assuming you’re going for primarily music, one of the smallest 12" subs are the SVS SB1000 Pros. I have these in a dual sub setup with my Wharfedale Lintons. Lintons at front wall and my subs are on opposing side walls. Did some sub crawling, but primarily went by my REW measurements and ultimately my ears. I often have to go to the subs to see if they’re on, but you can definitely tell when they’re off. Guess I’ve blended them well enough thru measurements and then trial/error. My room goes down to 28hz and I have two corner bass traps. Other than that it’s a carpeted room with a thick curtain over my glass windows. Sounds fantastic and the SVS’ have another great feature - bluetooth app so you can adjust the settings from your listening position. My final comment is I didn't go dual subs for extra bass, I have enough, but the dual subs handle the nulls mentioned by others, but for me just give a more immersive "presence" with the soundstage, depth, etc. |
I use a REL T5 8" downfiring sub. Musical Fidelity M6si integrated and Neat Xplorer speakers. Small sub fills in the room nicely. 22' deep, 16' wide and 10-11' ceilings. Speakers 7' apart and 18" from front wall, chair 8' from speakers. Sub positioned at 10:00 against left wall and about 18- 24" ahead of speakers. For a small sub in works really for my room. I was looking at upgrading to the Signature SE so your posts caught my attention. Surprised about bass lacking. Also surprised Legacy stated no burn-in time. Watching w/ interest... |
The SVS 1000SB are 14" x13". Very compact to fit under a table,behind furniture so you won't even see them. They can be programmed from your listening seat with an easy to use app. They are returnable best of all. As stated by me and others the best place to achieve smooth deep bass is usually not where your speakers are set up.Again, returnable. |
I use three Rel subs (two T5's and one T7) plus one SVS PB2000 along with a Musical Fidelity M6si integrated as well. So you know, 4 subs are better than two and putting the subs right next to your speakers is risky at best. If you are experiencing low frequency issues without the subs, it may be due to your speakers being in a less than ideal position for bass reproduction. Placing the subs near to that position may do nothing to help because the subs will be in a bad position as well. Do a sub crawl and find where the subs work best. |
I have a pair of Rel T/5x's paired with my Dynaudio Special 40's. I put them next to the speaker stands where I had planned when I got them and after trying to dial them in did not like the sound. I then put them in the front corners, back corners, and eventually out into the room on either side of the couch behind my listening spot. Even a few inches off the precise location I set based on listening tests messes with the sound. I have a nearly square room that may make placement a particularly big deal for me.
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The REL T5/x is exactly 12" tall. If your main speakers are rated to 22Hz I don't think a sub is needed and one that small may not help. As others have stated maybe an amp that's rated for 1 or 2 ohms with sufficient current/power for your needs? Maybe your room is the problem. I'm running two REL T7/x subs to the left and right of the main speakers and don't have a problem. FWIW my room is symmetrical, rectangular, small (11x14) and treated. |
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@kenstewart2005 +1+2 (or 3 or 4,, lost count) for the SVS SB1000 pro. I have dual SVS SB1000 Pro. Love ’em. Not to expensive, Smallest your gonna find for a 12" sub. The bluetooth app is a must (never gonna go back to "get up, sit down. get up, sit down" pain of adjustments).
PS: @navyachts please edit your last response,,, way to much empty space gonna kill your thread. |
I am surprised that you need subs with the Signature SEs as well, like others mentioned. My step father has those in his finished basement (large) and they fill the space perfectly with a Rega Elicit Mk4. I have the Legacy Studio HDs, and use a REL T5i, which I recommend for size and also their wireless transmitter! My space is very limited and awkward for placement of everything, so putting the sub, "somewhere" was really the only option. The wireless transmitter delivers the HI LEVEL signal and is pretty much identical to the wired hook up....only you can put it anywhere you want, or need for dealing with nulls, or placing "in the only spot you can put it!" like my set up.
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I searched for a small, fast, musical sub for my Maggies for several decades. Had very little luck until I picked up a KEF KC62 last year. Pricey compared to the competition, but I couldn’t be happier. Keeps up with the speed of the Maggies and has excellent pitch definition. Goes down to at least 20Hz. Worth checking out. |
@niskymichael - yes, I have heard some good things about those KC62s. Where do you place them in relationship to your Maggie's? |
@atmasphere - opps, sorry, it the two of the ForceField 2s I had, not Tritons! |
@lak "I'd give them more break-in time and make sure the speaker cables are in-phase. Even if the red and black ends of the speaker cables look like the correct + and - hook-up experiment and see if it makes a difference" I tried reversing them and sounds worse, so they must be OK |
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I'll give thumbs up to Bowers and Wilkins DB4S. |
@pedroeb - Thx Pedro, only 2 - channels here, but the B&W looks good! @narrowfellow - My room is kinda big though. Sounds like a great fir for you though! |
