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I had a pair of Quartettes for a short while before trading up to the older model of the J2001 (twin). The Quartettes do certain things that few speakers outside of big horn systems and old Western Electric 755-based systems can do. In particular, they hve a sense of energy, vibrancy and astonishing focus. This is a fun speaker that makes most others sound constipated by comparison.
But, they do have a somewhat lumpy bass response, light-weight upper bass and prominent midrange that can be problematic with orchestral music. These things can be addressed to some degree with proper matching equipment and set-up. The Quartettes are the most demanding speakers I know of in that respect. They are particularly sensitive to proper toe-in. Too little toe-in and some of that incredible focus is lost; too much and the stage collapses.
While they are rated at being something like 95-96 db efficient, they are apparently a very difficult load because so many amps I heard them with cannot control the woofer, making the response very uneven.
I know that Vincenzo, the designer, insists on tube amplification, but I've heard this speaker work quite well with the Hovland solid state amp. |
I thought I'd add that the speakers remind me a little of the Placette.---In that the Placette is small and light ---with a powerful wallop. The speakers are just like that.---They are light. Even the bass cabinet is light--but w/ a wallop. The top cabinet---the same thing.----My Montanas weighed 200 lbs--So I guess I used to think big bass--big cabinet. Even rap/ dance music sound great.---The R&D guys got all the right thing together.Altho the bass is there; it never lags or stands out---unless that is the way the music has been mixed--(Such as Dance music and rap--which I normally wouldn't even listen to.) |
Well I am stoked. I remember when I had the Sophia 845 driving my Montana.--Whith that combo- as you go thru your collection you are looking for something that will highlight what you got.---Now with the CJs in all triode and the new speakers---anything--/-- everything sounds great.---There seems to be NO-Horn-sound. I say this because I listened only to my Lowthers for the last 10 weeks.---The Q's are just amazing to me. That sealed bass cabinet puts out some serious "hurt" in bass wacks. Double bass, bowed, sounds down right menacing. I'm not the usual audophile. I don't hear all the different speaker/amps, combos. I run a Placette passive; all Syn.Reas.active-x cables. I use Celtic Silver speaker wire. I have Audiomecca's Enkainthus as the dac.-----I thought I would miss how the Lowthers do vocals.---Not a bit.----There are just so many things I love about these speakers.---One of them is I feel happy with my same old stuff driving them.---I now don't plan to buy this amp/those cables.---As I was thinking before the speakers got here.---As to how they sound compared to:---Well I only know they put my old Montanas to shame--even in the bass dept.---As I'm listening to familar stuff I hear so much more 'into' the recording-- seems all instruments have a more correct or a 'live' tone. I was listening to Elton John's Tiny Dancer. I had never noticed but you can hear the organ synthesizer playing through the whole song. Sometims at a low level; With these speakers you never loose track of it. There is just this magic with just about any kind of music.--Not just Jazz; or vocals. Old swing music ---I swear; anything shines. ------I guess you could say I like the speakers---- |
please let me know what you think of the Quartette. For sure, the CJ8 will have more than enough power to drive those speakers. |
Well, I have a pair of the quartetts coming end of next week.When I posted to this thread a while back, I had no idea I'd be buying this brand. Guess what amps I now own--CJ8's but the XS version.Power won't be a problem---That don't mean I won't be shopping for an amp and soon. |
SET is something l am toying with too. Does anyone own Supratek Merlots (www.supratek.biz) 10wpc SET's that if they are half as good as their pre-amps must be worth considering. |
Well.. well... this is truthly amazing. I got my dedicate power line installed couple days ago and guess what, I finally got the bass back.
Now, with 20w from the Art Audio Jota, I'm more happy than any big monster amps out there. Amazing sound, the midrange are just wonderful with the KR300BXLSX.
I'm waiting for my Hydra w/ python power code, might bring the system to another level. |
I certainly understand you missing the bass---compared to the 8a. I own the 8xs triode version. I also have the Sophia 845--- And a pair of Lowther horns coming. I'll be mising the bass of the CJs. Then intergrating the bass somehow, will be next. Jeez if I could only swing the 20k for the A.G.trios. |
Alright, after I've been listening careful over the weekend, the system sound great, but still missing the bass. I'm thinking to get a crossorver and a solid state amp for the bass. I've never done any bi-amp before, but would appreciate if some one can show me how and recommend some good solid state amps that match the system.
Thanks, |
Congratulations Linkoping, enjoy!
Cheers |
Alright, finally my Art Audio Jota BX arrived with the KR300B tubes. I hooked them up last night and was totally shock with the sound. The J2001-MKII SAP speakers was awnsome. With the 300B tubes output from the amp, the mid & high range are just to die for. The speakers finally come to life.
For now, this is one of the most ejoyable system I ever set up. (BAT-VK-D5 ->Emotive Sira LE -> Art Audio Jota BX -> SAP J2001 MKII). I've been listening to some other equipments (JM Lab Utopia, Kharma Ceramique 2.1, Cary SLP98, Cary 805C, Conrad Johnson 8A, Cary 306-200.....) but now, finally, this system is a "keeper".
Only upgrade I might think about is power conditioner and another Jota/other amps for bi-amp to increase a little more bass.
Also, will get my phono (Jota Saphier III) this weekend :) |
Larryi,
Thanks for all the information. As the new J2001 MKII, they are pretty small actually. These are not twin but only have one woofer (96 db) and midrange and super tweeter at 105db.
I set them up last weekend and just used a pair of cheap amps, the Audio Note P Zero (15w/chanel) to test them out. The midrange and the tweeter are awnsome, however I can feel there's lack of power, especially the bass.
I just bought the Art Audio Jota (20-24w/chanel) and still waiting for the delivery. Will keep you guys update about the sound. |
I just visited the SAP website out of curiosity. The model shown as the J2001 Mk.II is completely different from the speaker I and Rgwrjs own. What we have are quite large floor-standing models with two 12" woofers in a Jensen/Onken bass reflex cabinet and a midrange/tweeter unit that floats above the woofer cabinets on a magnetic suspension system. It was my understanding that the version of the J2001 we have was being discontinued because the manufacturer thought it is too expensive to make.
I mention this because the various speakers in the SAP line are quite dramatically different in how they sound and behave with various amplifiers. The speakers we have are very easy to drive and sound good with just about any amplifier (of course they sound their best with good amps). However, other models in the SAP line can be much more difficult to match with amplifiers. For example, the Quartettes have a leaner, more detailed sound and can be (for my tastes) quite overbearing if not matched to warmer sounding amps. The Quartette also appears to be electrically a more difficult load and it requires more power and amps that can control its bass drivers than its 95 db/w and nominal 8 ohm rating would suggest.
Good luck in your search. I am sure you will find a combination that is rewarding. This line of speakers makes most of the speakers on the market sound constipated and boring by comparison. |
In answer to your question, as expected the amp I prefer the most is the one I am using now, a custom made 2A3 SET with the Audio note Kageki transformers and silver wiring. However they were pricey and I had much enjoyment with J2001 and other less costly amps. I particularly enjoyed using a 45 SET; there are several makers of these amps-Wavelength, Korneff, etc.
Good luck,
Reg |
The 805C does not use 300B tubes as output power devices, they use the 845. |
300b sounds better...for the best sound with 845 amps you would want top notch NOS tubes...budget at least 1000 US for a pair of NOS 845 tubes..they are much more expensive than quality 300b tubes (300 to 400/pr..sophia, TJ) |
30 watts is more than enough power for any kind of material for most speakers with a 99db efficiency rating....10 watts would be plenty |
Also, another question I hope someone can help me with. How would you compare the 845 v.s. the 300B.
I've expirience the 300B (Cary 805C) and loved it. Heard a lot about 845 so just wonder....
Thanks |
Rgwrjs,
from all the amps you've tried, which one you prefer the most?
The SAP J2001 MKII has 97db instead of the older version, which have 99db.
Thanks |
I also have and love the SAP J2000 twins. I have used the Cary 300SEI, Cary 805s, Tenor 75i,custom made 45 push pull amps, and currently a custom 2A3 SET monoblocks with the Audio note Kageki tansformers. Like Larry has stated and IME, the speakers do very well with most tube amps. I suggest that you stick to your budget, buy used, and try to get an amp that you could resell without difficulty when you are ready to make a change. |
Well, here is no advice for a tube design, but did you ever listen to a Pass aleph series ?
They are something special and sound very good from scratch, and they are not sensitive to Preamps.
Another interesting idea could be the F1 amplifier ( the First Watt ), these are made for speaker design like you have. |
Hi,
Have any one heard or audit the Dehavilland Aries 845-G with 845 tube output? These are 30W/chanel.
I'm wonder if they will be compatible with my SAP J2001 horn speakers (99db)
Thanks! |
Like Larryi I'll recomend an Art Audio amp, the Carissa. I'm running it with my speakers that are 98db efficient and have a 12" woofer with horn mid and tweeter. It's an 845 SET with 16 watts. There is an excellent review by John Potis on 6moons. The Carissa along with my deHavilland UltraVerve sound wonderful. Amazing resolution with body weight and warmth. I wish I could better explain how great it sounds but I'll leave that up to the reviewers. Good luck in your search. Also, as good as the deHavilland is you should also check out their 845 SET the Ios. I look forward to hearing it someday.
Cheers |
Also, most music I listen to do require power. Favorites music for me always are those big symphonies (e.g. Mahler, Shostakovich...) |
Larryi,
Thanks for the input. Finally there are someone on board here that use the same speakers. I just ordered the J2001 MKII version. They are on the way to my listening room so I didn't have a chance to test out with the CJ Premier 8A yet. However, I think single ended would suit these speakers better, that's why I was intend to try something new. I'm listing my CJ Premier 8A for sell on audiogon right now, 6k+shipping. Got couple offers, but still thinking about what other amps would work..... |
I own SAP J2001 (the big model with twin 12" woofers). This is a very easy speaker to drive -- high nominal impedance and 99 db efficient. I use to use a push-pull 45 tube amp that put out about 6 watts and that was sufficient. I now use a parallel single-ended 2a3 amp. However, both amps are out of your specified price range.
What don't you like about the CJ amps? I would not assume that they are unsuited to this speaker. However, if you are fishing around for alternatives to try with the J2001, I would focus on amps using the PX25, 45, 300B or 45 tubes. Single-ended 45s and 2a3s might be a bit short on power if you listen to demanding music at high volumes (e.g., large-scale choral music).
In the price range specified, used equipment would be the best bet (e.g., Art Audio PX25 amp).
This is a great speaker that somehow manages to sound musical with almost anything matched to it, while making any change none-the-less easily discernible. |
check out www.kraudio.com.. |
I used to own a pair of Cary 805C which supposed to be one of the greatest single ended power amps. At that time, I didn't have the J2001MKII SAP speakers, but the JM Lab Utopia. I wasn't happy with the bass so I let them go. Now, I change the speakers (the SAP speaker is a horn speaker) and really regret about the amps. Ofcours, the Conrad Johnson Premier 8A are wonderful, but I assume they are overpower and not "sing" well with my speakers.
I never heard of the Berning before and not sure about these products....
I've been thinking about the wavelenght with low power, but famous for their clear, zero feedbacks, single ended class A. But they are too expensive. Any recommendation please? Budget can't be more than 5-6k since I can only sell/trade my Conrad Johnson Premier 8A for that price. |
I second the Berning Siegfried, tho I prefer the 811 version (slightly more power and less classic tube sound-more neutral to my ears). |
I think that a David Berning Siegfried 300B Single-Ended ZOTL is an excellent SET amp with the advantages of OTL sonics and terrific impedance matching without an output transformer.
They can be bought for under your stated budget, and would be one of the best amps possible at that price range. |
Air Tight ATM300 - one of the most neutral SETs around and built like a battleship. Tamura trannies, point-to-point wiring, self biasing, comes with WE 300B output tubes. Do some tube rolling for the input and rectifier tubes. |
You can have a custom single ended 300b (or 2a3 or push/pull) interstage coupled amplifier built for you for 4000 including a warranty. This amp would have custom would Electraprint transformers and come in two chassis; one amp and one power supply. No noise, great sound, and a tremendous power supply for those transients. If interested let me know. |
