The best MTMs I've ever heard were ribbon/planar/round
OK now we are talking
a ribbon might work, vs a midtweet.
I said might..
I'd have to hear a ribbon mid tweet vs the 2 SEAS top mid-tweets.
Which are the Cresendo and my Millennium.
Thing is, tell me ifa ribbon has that same liability/weakness as a planar..which is a narrow dispersion,,which i know is the case,,, which is why 1 speaker design using ribbons has 3 in a straight line row for just that reason, = 3 ribbons = $$$$$ vs Milleniums $250/Cresendo's $300.
3 good ribbons = 300 each thats $900 and still that narrow sweet spot would just grate my nerves.
|
MTM best design ever, past 20 years, still #1 speaker design. vs
FR?
ha! |
low power SAT
OP, mentions a SET amp, = I hate SET amplification.
SEAS does make high eff speakers but ya gotta pay the piper.
SET amps can not play complex/full range orch music with authority,,,SET amps are for light jazz only |
mozartfan1,579 posts08-06-2020 7:10pm low power SAT
OP, mentions a SET amp, = I hate SET amplification.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ hahaha Who is this guy?? Again he obviously has not hheard a SET amp. SETs are wonderful, They offer all the power one could ever need/want/wish for to drivea nice dual low db woofer + WBer + tweeter. PP or SET your free choice.. Put that guy on ignore. SETs low powered he say, SETs offer up to 20++ wattage. far more than needed to push a nice Wide Band + low sns woofer + tweeter 3 way.. 1st reseach then make a comment, please |
mozartfan1,578 posts08-05-2020 4:10pm2nd best ever design
2 way
8 or 10 inch midwoofer
+ midtweet, as 2nd place, all others, ALL Others
3 rd place,
Wilons
B$W's
Theils
vandy's
etc
all
3rd
place designs
FR last place, just below next to last place of speakers I hate are The Famous (??)
Planars,, i hate Planars, next I hate FR.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Don't listen to this guy, He has absoluetly no idea what the heck he is blabbing, Guy says FR, last place,hahahaha Truth is Wide bands take top prize in that ever elusive most difficult fz range to get neutral, natural, non colored, no fatigue, Top Dawgs. Obviously he has not ever heard a hifi Wide Band. Good grief.... |
Someone mentioned WBers have some issues with midrange, bass and highs.
Yes and no,
there are beautiful sounding midrange WBers and then there are just OK/sos midrange sounding WBers.
Obviously we are all only interested in top dawgs.
Bass, I get pretty goodbass out the DLVX8 and the DLW4.
The Seas W18E001's add some nuances 40hz-1600hz
Highs?
No problem
Paper tweet + Mundorf 2.2 SESGO cap, adds some charms.
The whizzer in the DLVX8 is very accurate on vocals and all instrumentation in jazz/classical/piano, Very neutral.
I've looked over all the newest WBers,
The 2 that i can afford and find pretty good are the DavidLouis and Tang Band
About to add a Tang Band W31878 Its been out some time now, maybe 8 years, has that spiked center phase pulg which eliminates beaming.
Can't wait to add it to the DLVX8 and DLW4.
It will be a sort of 3 way WBer with dual W18's+ tweeter.
Adding the TBW31878 will make my design the very 1st of its kind.
No one else in the Inet has made a WBer 3 way.
My concept is the 1st of its kind.
The TB1878 has to sing as good/better than the W8+W4 or it can not stay.
|
FR speakers certainly have their limitations. They have a very specific sound signature that may not be to everyones taste.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WEll if we make the 20hz-40hz fq range a limitation then yeah, WBers fall shot here.
But again in my classical music, cellos lowest notes are in the low 60hz range.
Jazz fans also, not much below say 30hz.
Less than 1% of the music is below 40hz
*Signature sound*.
I find xover types all suffer froma *House Sound*
Bose, B&W's havea distinct sound,,which we all tend to avoid.
My Seas Thors were extremely neutral, = no house sound, Perfectly natural in voicing.
But at 87db, = wet blanket sound.
All WBers will differ in sound.
The Tang BandW82145 and the DavidLouis VX8, sounded nearly identical.
I shiped the TB2145 back, although it is a winner, But I just now realized with that aluminum phase plug, it may very well have beamed highs.
The DLVX8 with a unique phase plug + whizzer has very little beam effect.
**Not to everyones taste**
Fact it, the hard truth is
Audiogon is a xover traditional 3 way discussion board.
Most of the members have yet to hear any WBer in action,.
Perhaps the old Lowthers, Fostex's back 20 years ago,
Those don't count today.
WBers have come a longggggg way since those 2 early models.
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atmasphere9,806 posts10-14-2021 1:53pmhas that spiked center phase pulg which eliminates beaming. This conclusion is false. What the phase plug does is prevent cancellation from one side of the cone to the other, so the highs generated can actually be heard. It does not prevent beaming at all; that is simply a thing if you have 'full range' drivers without a tweeter.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Well I may have ead something in the descript about the odd spiked phase plug as helping eleiminate some beaming effect. I vaguely recall now the Tang Band 2145 8 may have had beaming issues. I only had it testeda few hours then boxed it up and shipped it back I was unaware of this beaming effect at that time, 3 Months ago, Its still a very accurate midrange speaker with great bass (considering it is a wide band) and has IMHO excellent highs. I say IMHO , due to this prejudice that WBers lack the ultra highs. If you want ultra highs witha WBer set up grab any hifi tweet and there you go you got it. Lack of 20-40hz bass and ,,say 12K++ highs really is not a issue with me as far as WBers are concerned. The mids in my WBer 2 way is a voicing that i have not heard in any xover style speaker. My guess is over the comming decades more folks will want to know more about these WBer *things*. Looked over the DavidLouis for about 3 years before I made purchase. After 6 or 7 trial N error I found what I was looking for. |
6db or more, Actually start to go down from 8Khz .Whizzer cone is stupid idea, yes is adding high , but is not control. sometimes is make sound too bright
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WEll 8khz or 10k hz, makes no difference. WE are really enjoying our WBers for their incredible unique midrange voicing.
Its very esay to add any tweeter for the 8khz - 15khz.
Any old tweeter will do.
But I demand 91/92db sens.
Again, not all whizzer cones are poor fidelity.
The DavidLouis VX8 somehow has cloned the AER/Voxativ design quite well.
And the sound is super.
Whereas the Tang band 2145 has no whizzer, has this unique aluminum phase plug which has very nice highs 12khzish,,,but if I recall (??) had some beaming going on.
Whereas the DavidLouis has no more beaming that any tweeter has beaming.
Tang Band has 2 models with unique spiked phase plugs to help eliminate beaming..
Which atmasphere didagrees.
If you read the cation, mentions unique PP spiked for better highs dispersion.
I plan to add the W3 1878 sometime in janurary.
Those lil guys aren’t cheap at $260/pair. Tang Band knows its their best and wants the cash.
The TB W4’s are $250 each and they are SELLING!!!!! = $500 a pair for a little 4 inch cone!!!!!! Worth it, as the magnet structure is a good bit heavier.
All I need is the W3, Will be a nice addition to the DLVX8 and DLW4.
Will add some nice rich sparkles to the highs.
Only 88db sens, =its ok, as the VX8 is 92 and W4 91db.
So 88 db will be perfect, as a back up voice to what I have now.
4 way speaker, maybe a 5 way. If you consider dual W18E001.s a ,,,let me add up all the drivers,,,
5 way speaker, but has 6 drivers in each channel.
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Well as a speaker lab, I know costs come in as a factor
$250 vs $550.
Sound is very close, so good move.
But in my case, I prefer the DL over the TB.
+ as i mentioned, perahps , can't completely recall, but i do remember the Tang Band's phase plug did exhibit a little beaming.
Which is why the W3/W4 have this spiked PP.
The DL does not have as much beaming so the sweet spot if not a issue as with the TB2145.
IMHO the whizzer is not the issues in past Foxtex/Lowther models.
Its the material used to make the cones and also the inner construction/magnet type that made the early WBers (pre 2010) have some coloration.
The Whizzer performs excellent as it gives mids/highs a bit more openess , dispersion and sound stage.
I must have a whizzer in a W6/W8
In a W3/W4 whizzer not needed.
My DL W4 has a whizzer , but its really tiny and voices accurate.
The DLVX8 whizzer is a work of art and technical achievement.
Some chinese tech geek really cloned the AER/Vox with great success. And am I glad he did.
Saved me alotttt of cash.
Will be a interesting shootout the TBW3/1878 VS the DLW4
Both will remain, regardless how the shootout goes. |
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But when you consider AER/Vox/Festrex all 3 big WBer labs employ whizzers. They must have tested with and w/o whizzers. To me its not important whizzer or no whizzer, only the acutal sound matters to me. Still waiting for your imput as to the TB 2145's beaming effect. I could swear I heard soemthing of that affect in my 2 day testing. . So if the 2145 does present some beaming,, well then yeah no whizzer *IS* a problem. Which is why I think they designed the spiked PP in the W3/W4's. I mean to me beaming not a big issue as i am sitting in one spot,, HOWEVER if I can find a speaker that has much less beaming, and sounds on same hifi level (as does the DLVX8) well then I'd rather have the less beam speaker. I know you want to defend the 2145 at all costs, as it is your main speaker in the design. Had I made more extensive testing of the 2, I might be able to find reasons to place the DLVX8 above the TB2145. My review states *nearly identical** I am retracting now, the DLVX8 **I prefer over * the TB2145. Close call, But if only 1 gets the cigar, well then DLVX8 gets the Cuban. Mark Audio no whizzers Fostex's top of line, whizzer. https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-8-fullrange/fostex-fe208ns-8-full-range/ |
**single base Ls..* translate
Sure other than you and I, there really aren't more than a few others here on Agon who are into (= hold the belief WBers represent the ultimate speaker design, 2nd to none, cultists, heretics, philistines) WBers as most practical, most hifi speaker design of all speaker designs.
Including ZU's *morphed WBer things*
Have no idea what's up with that speaker.
Nothing I like about the company.
Your lab is wayyy ahead of the curve.
As I mentioned the sky is the limit.
These WBers are the real deal.
So yeah i can give you my imput/ideas.
Its just a matter of time before your lab becomes a big hit.
So if I were you i'd really get ideas going and make some plans to work on new designs.
I plan to add the TBW31878 , this will give me 3 WBers in each channel, + the W18's, + a tweeter.
I really got things rockin here.
I googled alot to try to find if any one else has such a design
So far no one.
I think my 3 WBer speaker is the only speaker with this concept.
I'd add it today if I could, but the past yr WBer experiementation has busted the audio piggy bank,
|
bache OP389 posts10-16-2021 3:17pmSorry , loudspeakers based on one driver, Single driver loudspeakers, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Politely argue with that subjective opinion. I’ve tried it and it works If you find its not acceptable, nor even practical, I understand you need to carter to what sells, your customers, I plan to have 3 WBers in each channel. Might work, might not, The W8W4 will stay til..... Diana Krall’s voice never sounded so poetic and beautiful. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Now on to this Q!. WE list all speaker designs Concentric /Zu’s, Tannoy Horns Panels/stats. xover box types Last but most certainly not least... we have the WBers/FC’s. Make a column for each design The strengths in 1 column and the weakness/downside in the next column. Lets see what we come up with. The only 2 weaknesses that might appear in the WBer column is bass/highs roll off. Other than that. ,,,,, Tally will show WBers the winner. |
bache OP389 posts10-16-2021 12:13pm8" sigma is no good I , not for me, very bad freq response, if you see this got the pick about 10 db on 3.5Hkz , cone break , same f-n issue like TB 1808
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yes I looked at the db/hz chart,, odd looking,,has this weird break /dip in the mids,, very odd. Never seen any chart like it. Besides I did not care for any YT vid of any Fostex, definetly not my cup of tea. And yes i think word is out the TB 2145 beats out both TB 1808 and TB1772 Both 1808 and 1772 have Neo pill type magnets. Too small IMHO, This pill Neo Dymium magnet design is also in the TB W3 and TBW4,, my guess is a better performance as the cones are very small and the size of the pill magnet looks more than beffy enough to push both to gorgeous performance. = SLAMMM The TB 2145 has a massive ferrite which really is superior to those tiny pill Nd magnets. I have ideas on a world class WBer design. Invlves 2 WBers + dual 8 inch magnesium woofers + a Be/Nd magnet tweeter. all parts under $3k, will beat out any speaker on the market. In every department. Will annihilate any Zu , any Wislon, any Tekton. There top 3 speakers shot down with 1 draw of the gun. Thats one bad gun slinger shoots 3 gunners with 1 single shot. Nothing will touch it. |
ok just found the chart for the DavidLouis W4. Might be back in stock, not sure anywayy db/fq chart shows very poor behavior. Dips and peaks all over and has the highs extended past 20khz. In my ststem the highs seem rolled off at 12khz,, So this proves charts are not not that helpful/ With a chart like this, I would believe the speaker has stressed/distorted mids. Which it does not. Mids have no stress, clean, clear and good bass, at 80hz shows 85db = valid, not hyped. I have no idea which is the superior speaker DLW4 Nd or TBW31878 Nd (pill type magnet) Both will have a home in my system. https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32808654531.html |
The db/fq chart does have some value. I know/ can understand that a chart with too many peaks/dips and the size of each dip/peak, does equate to either superior sound or equates to midrange stress aka distortion, coloration, = aka The Dreaded Mionster n who goes by the name Monster Fatigue. The davidlouis W4 has a very nice clean relatively smooth chart, vs the Dayton W3 from parts Express DavidLouis W4 @ $175/pr vs DaytonW3 @ $60/pr. Here is the Tang Band W3 1878 chart. Nearly identical to the DavidLouis W4., except the DL W4 has big roll off on highs. I can just tell from looking at this chart this speaker sounds super fidelity. Which is why TB has it priced correctly. $130/each. Their W4 with special PP fetches $230 EACH!!! TB1878 chart. No roll off past 20khz!!! that entire chart looks gorgeous. The thing is hitting 60hz’s @ 80db,, UNREALLLL http://www.tb-speaker.com/products/w3-1878 |
Interesting
I recall a ONKYO amp I had back in the 80's had a built in 5 level EQ.
I liked playing with it.
I just ran all EQ's all the way up except the middle eq.
I'm not that interested in the EQ test, although as you say might show some weakness.
You might find usage as you design and build for customers.
I'm pretty happy with the 2 DL's, and am sure the additon of the Tang band W3 will also add some nice charms.
I knid of ... you know what,,,In fact what you are saying has some truth...The DLVX8 all by iteslf is quite livable, I have no issues with it as a stand alone speaker
But thought, since I have the DLW4 just sitting in the closet,,why not see what happens along with the DLVX8. BINGO,,the EQ's missing in the DLVX8 were padded by the EQ's in the DLW4. Diana Kralls voice just came to life.
Apparently whatever EQ's were weak in the DLVX8 were padded by the EQ's in the W4.
No speaker is perfect flat response.
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Not sure where to get this EQ you are talking about.. Ebay?? Price? The WBer experiements set me back, audio budget very tight. So what is your purpose of testing EQ in your lab. To ck to see where a speaker is weak? I am not sure what the reason is testing EQ? I am sure if I hook the W8 or W4 or even my complete 4 way speaker to some EQ gadget, like having say 10 EQ levers,, I am sure the sound,,or lets say, some fq ranges that I perfer might geta boost in some recordings. But then the musc has to pass through this gadget = more distortion. EQ gadget may boost FQ's, but adds distortion. The EQ thing on the Onkyo sounded better in off mode. Not sure why you don't play around with the davidLouis VX6 and add in a TB W3. Then add a pair of DavidLouis Magnesium 8's per cabinet and then add in the Davidlouis Be/Nd tweeter. 25cm , not the 28. I think you''ll be pleasantly surprised. That combo will beat my system, perhaps, ,, magnet system is a beast. IMHO Magnesium is the best cone material to intergrate intoa WBer system, as its neutral /not warm. vs paper types which i don't like. I know you offer paper 10's, not my cup of tea. Too muddy/boomy. https://www.ebay.com/itm/324521174123?hash=item4b8ef8246b:g:BFIAAOSwoRRg1EKi |
Everyone's talking cones.
By far the best approach to a full range single driver speaker is electrostatic
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now wait just 1 minute there. A xover low sens cone is not the same asa WBer cone.
Totally different speakers.
Its xover low sens (SB Acoustics/Seas/Scanspeaks vs WBers)
Stats/panels have issues/complexities.that WE9The WBer cultists) don't want to deal with.
Horns vs Stats vs low sensxover types vs WBers.
Take your pick. |
Not willing to give up frequency extremes for the various music genre I enjoy, so multiple drivers with seamless crossover integrations - sounds like a cohesive whole.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'd describe my system speaker as cohesive/seamless/neutral/no coloration/ wide N deep soundstage(aka instrument separation) Further developments are on the design board.
These new high tech WBers (vs the old Lowther/Fostex's of the 1990's-2000) offer a sound w/o the weaknesses and handicaps of yesteryear.
Tang band just keeps on developing, adjusting, tweaking, break throughts, modifications,, til they get a winner.
Which they ave accomplished.
But they want Gold for em.
Considering the price you guys are paying for Dali, Sonus Faber ,Wilsons, Tektons, Tannoys
why heck the TB asking price is dirt cheap.
TB W3 1878. can't wait |
Tannoy dual concentric driver...I love mine....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have dual WBers, about to make it a 3 way wide bander.
+ my paper tweeter is wonderful, clean realistic vocals, just claen/clear,, About to go better with a Be/Nd tweeter davidlouis clone of the scanspaek's $350 each tweeter.
I just love these chnese clones, Are they robbing tecnhology from AER/Voxativ is the Wbers? DavidLouis is, for sure.
The DLVX8 is a near identical clone of the AER/Voxativ.
The DavidLouis Be/Nd is pretty close clone of the sacnspeak,
Though I am againt china stealing techology,, in this instances, it serves me very well.
Your Tannoy tweeter aint gonna beat the Be/Nd tweet.
Besides if I want a Tannoy, DavidLouis has a near exact clone of that speaker as well.
Not the least bit interesed in a concentric.
Us WBer fan-ATICS are crazyyy about our WBers.
Wouldn;'t even consider using any other design as main singer in our system.
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muddy, goopy, boomy, greyish/taupish, foggy, murky, bloated, heavy, soupy, midrange/upper bass issues
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And if you you dont know what these horrible qualites actually sound like in a speaker, Just go hear any Bo,,,no les not pick on Bose,, thats too easy to a pick.
Take any B&W to experience these unwanted distortions.
If your speaker can not beat out a B&W, time to look for a hifi WBer set up. |
Footnote: I went back to larger multi-way systems since I have a large listening room and wanted to listen to the full dynamic range of a large symphony orchestra going full tilt at actual live levels. I didn't want to be concerned with a voice coil wizzing past my ear.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My classical music has come completely alive with my whizzer WBers.
Incredible soundstage.
Not sure what WBers you are talking about, Surely not Tang bands best nor DavidLouis best WBers, can't be.
You must have heard some low class WBer |
A 3 way design will most likely "blow away" everyone at first listen compared to a single driver.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Correct,.
Big Wilsons, Dali, Sonus Fabers will be very impressive in the 1st session,, Once you get them home,,, well thats a whole nother ball game.
= fatigue sets in,,then you feel like a fool.
Been there DONE that.
Wouldn't trade my dual WBers for any speaker in the world. |
Yes, the tweeter has a High-Pass filter, but no crossover
~~~~~~~~
I'm running my paper cone tweeter (yes I did say 1970's style paper tweeter, Kasun) witha single 2.2 Mundorf SESGO cap, sounds super duper,
vs the Seas Millennium tweet
like 8 components, 18uf, 2.2, 3.3 2.2 and perhaps 1 more cap!!!! ARRGHHHHH, trash.
All you need for a tweet is a simple single cap 6uf-2uf , xovers drain the life out a tweeter. |
Super tweeters make sound more refined, more air, detailed… But harsh in upper midrange, more fatigue, more smearing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yep I could not live witha super horn tweet, Not my cup of tea.
I recall the old rat Shak super's,, just aweful,. Sure they are superior now,
But I;'m going to try a Scan Clone Be/Nd tweeter vs my 3 inch paper cone double magnet tweeter.
My guess is the Be/Nd will annihilate my fav paper tweet.
Will run a single 2.2uf Mundorf SESGO cap.
Think this will kick in at 10khz ish..range |
The comment about all 3 way speakers being fatiguing in the long run is an incorrect generalization
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes this is true.
What I mean by ~~fatiguing~~~ is certain fq's in the higher bass hz and the lower midrange fq;s, are **colored/barky/muddy/boomy *etc etc.
Usually , in fact all this is comming from the midwoofers above say,,,200hz range through,,whereever the midwoofer ends its singing part in the speaker design, usually at 1800hz-2200hz.
I really have no issues with tweeters other than they are extremely inefficient and thus the music sounds like a wet blanket has been thrown over the speaker.
Thus midwoofer (other than my Seas Magnesium) all are some paper type comp, Accuton has ceramin, might be OK, but those mids are wayyyyy over priced.
So basic midwoofer has terrible time in the 200hz-2k hz range.
This is where all the grateing on my nerves comes from.
Now again, I know of 2 tech geeks who adore their stacked paper cone speakers from the 1970's, So each his own.
I could not live those paper things, Totally grate my nerves.
I need/demand pure neutrality with zero coloration.
This is how WBers voice, pure clean music.
No coloration, zero fatigue.
This is what i mean about fatigue.
Again you might find your speaker perfectly ok.
But for some we are looking for neutrality, no coloration from the midwoofers. And tweeters won't work for us WBer cultists. |
Most people do not know how to hear and judge a speakers voicing.
Here's the issue.
I know how to do it now.
As stated above
**midrange is 200hz-2khz**
Thats where my ears are keen upon.
A name is not going to make any impressions.
Wilson.
OK, its very popular, has lots of excellent comments, Great, should i be impressed by popular vote?
Why?
Sonus faber,, just the name sounds soooo exotic.
If we place speakers behind a curtain and have a Zu as one among all the xover types.Immediaetly you are going to know which is the WBer (aka Zu) and which are all the xover types.
Its not really difficult you know.
But folks auditiona Wilson, and just based on the name in Neon lights flashing, WILSON,, psychoacoustics sets in and that alone gets Wilson's advantage.
When truth is, behind the curtain, the Zu is the one that will most impress.
WBer's always win.
Most folks have no clue how to hear, listen and judge a speaker.
WBers always win.
Why?
Don't make me, please dont repeat myself.
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knotscott212 posts10-20-2021 3:02pmI want incredible transparency so I feel like I’m in the room. I want a vivid convincing sound stage. I want full range, so everything is present. I want dynamics and realistic spatial cues. I want natural delicate overtones that don’t sound like hyped treble pretending to be resolution.
Nothing I know of offers one stop shopping that successfully addresses all of those requirements. There are pros and cons to every philosophy and every choice. Pick your compromise(s)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Exactly, BINGO What i am trying to erxpress is the WB configure I have voices music the way I wanta speaker to sound. Will anyone else agree,, is not important....Perfection?? Not sure what that is ina speaker. Wilsons at $$$$$$ is exactly NOT NOT what I want a speaker to voice. That I can assue you, even w/o actually hearinga Wilson, just looks tells me, not my cup of tea.. btw I just listened to some YT vids on the Zu's, Again, not my cup of tea. I'm a hifi/high end WBer. These davidLouis work just fine as a ultimate speaker system. ...and about to get better when I add in the TBW31878,,then the Be/Nd tweeter. look out,,, Perfect as Scott says above... perhaps not, But sure draws me in to WANT to hear my classical selections. |
knotscott212 posts10-20-2021 3:02pmI want incredible transparency so I feel like I’m in the room. I want a vivid convincing sound stage. I want full range, so everything is present. I want dynamics and realistic spatial cues. I want natural delicate overtones that don’t sound like hyped treble pretending to be resolution. Nothing I know of offers one stop shopping that successfully addresses all of those requirements. There are pros and cons to every philosophy and every choice. Pick your compromise(s). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2nd post on Scotts ideas. As I was listening to Miles Davis Kind of Blue 2nd track,, your post made me ponder and reflect on what you said.. I have to rethink this thing through... OK so we all want what you describe soundstage instrument separation vocals life like. bass, mids highs dynamics realism etc ’etc But you know each of us will hear these things with a dif set of criteria/inner judgements. I base what I hear on my Seas Thors experience past 15 yrs. This is my reference point. Now back to what you were saying Actually whther a speaker has or does ot have these qualities which may be hard to objectify ina real setting, each will hear what he wants hto hear. What I say is, regardless of these qualites we all hope for. Its better if we consider qualities we DO NOT want in a speaker. I block out bass, and highs. I only wish to know how the 200hz-1800 hz sound. Thats it. If this super critical range has muddy, goopy, boomy, greyish/taupish, foggy, murky, bloated, heavy, soupy, midrange/upper bass issues. Here is where a speaker either gets the cigar or does not.. I find no such descripts in my speaker system. I ran the Seas W18E001’s full range, just to see how they sound,, yuckkk, they are trash w/o a 10uf cap and thus only good under 1600hz. maybe 1800hz. Perhaps the golden 2k. I think the 10uf takes them to 1600hz. They sound great. The Davidlouis 200-1800 hz, have zero muddy low bass mids. Nothing bloated, boomy, = zero coloration, thus zero fatigue. Again bass 40hz-100hz, is not my concern. neither are the say 6khz++ range. I have no interest in these fq.s I can find these excellent drivers that will deliver these fq’s w/o any coloration. Its that super duper critical 200hz-1500hz that i want right (= perfection) in a speaker Zero toleration, zero coloration. My ears are hound dog for just these fq’s in any speaker evalution. Rant over. |
My tech geek just wrote
**Its impossible to tell what a speaker is like via YT vid w comp speakers*
WEll lets say you hear biden's voice and then trumps voice via YT vid, with no image
Other than both blabbing BS content, you can't decipher who is who speaking?
Is what I wrote back.
Lets see what he says.
I can hear some issues with Zu's YT vids.
Its there, what exactly, not sure but just dont like what i hear.
But with a return policy there is no risk
So single driver but has to be high fidelity = neutrality.
Just any old single driver will not always beat a 3 way.
Most every Tang Band will indeed outshoot Wilsons, Dali, Sonus Faber.
3 BIG GUNs. = $$$$$$$$$$
|
now that's definitive
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well its only IMHO
Others can make their ow call,
Zu does have a super duper generous return policy.
What happened was , I was INITALLY convinced the Zu's propiatary driver was unique and very musical.
I was wrong.
They are not, agian, Its only my opinion,
Feel free to order as you can always return.
I'm staying with my Davidlouis/AER clone. Well actually Vox clone, as the cone is wood same as Vox's $5k model.
The DLVX8 has neutrality as a signature voice.
Hear my YT vids if you have doubts.
Its all in my videos.
Yeah I did earlier pump Zu;s, now I am speaking out with futher research.
Aplogies to Mr Zu. |
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Yes I made FUTHER more through research hearing soem YT vids of the Zu's. Not my cup of tea. Not neutral, sorry no cigar.
A speaker must possess this one quality
Neutrality.
If it does not have neutral voice, then you will have issues. One guy ona chart forum tried to console and comfort a Tek buyer with deep regrets, after his snakeoil induced purchase... saying
**Look I have my Acoustic Reserach AR3's now 50 yrs, I am quite happy*.
So I guess each his own.
Zu's are far from neutral.
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