you're right. it cannot.
single driver speakers
Someone please help me out here...
I am struggling to understand how a single driver system can sound anywhere near as good as a multiple-driver system with crossovers...
I understand that crossovers and multiple drivers can have issues with interference, phase, etc - but those drawbacks would seem to be vastly outweighed by the increased frequency response and clarity within a frequency spectrum that a multi-driver system produces.
I see these
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8ij2i-voxativ-ampeggio-due-70-off-priced-to-move-full-range
and just can not wrap my mind around how they could sound better than a multi-driver system costing 1/10 as much. (no knock intended on the seller of these speakers, I was just browsing listings and saw them so it made me wonder)
Thanks!
I am struggling to understand how a single driver system can sound anywhere near as good as a multiple-driver system with crossovers...
I understand that crossovers and multiple drivers can have issues with interference, phase, etc - but those drawbacks would seem to be vastly outweighed by the increased frequency response and clarity within a frequency spectrum that a multi-driver system produces.
I see these
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8ij2i-voxativ-ampeggio-due-70-off-priced-to-move-full-range
and just can not wrap my mind around how they could sound better than a multi-driver system costing 1/10 as much. (no knock intended on the seller of these speakers, I was just browsing listings and saw them so it made me wonder)
Thanks!
50 responses Add your response
Czarivey, I do not know how they work but I can give you my opinion for what is worth. I have owned two different single driver speakers. I owned The 2nd Rethm with an upgraded Lowther driver with an upgraded silver voice coil driver and wired with Crimson speaker cable for 15 years. I enjoyed ther clarity but they were a little too “shouty”. It is hard to beat the huge soundstage, midrange and bass clarity. The limited bass depth was sufficient for me. However I found that the treble was a bit too cut off and grainy. They were also hard to integrate into my living room decor. I now have a pair of Audience 1+1 V2+’s in my main system and the smaller version called The One in my office system. I maintained the midrange clarity, soundstage and gained treble focus. I won’t tell you that multi driver speakers are better or worse but I all I can say is that once I compared single driver speakers to multi driver speakers is that I preferred Single Diver speakers since then. You might want to get a hold of A pair of the Audience 1+1’s, try Galen Carol Audio, he may have a thirty day return policy and are only the size of a medium sized toaster. This makes them easy to move them around and set up. I have also heard the Tocoro’s, another single driver speaker, I found those quite compelling as well. Dreamonoids, in San Antonio, TX sells them so you might want to give those a try if you are curious about a larger single driver speaker. You might want to audition those as well. One thing I have experienced through the years is that the cleaner the power delivery, power chords, speaker cables and interconnects of good quality elevates their musical clarity. Have fun, rc |
I think some of this is mythology, and much of it is personal taste. In the past integrating multiple drivers was really difficult. Multi-way speakers pre-date the electronic spreadsheet, PC’s and of course crossover simulation tools by decades. A lot of trial and error and wasted time IMHO. This is why some of the Genesis speaker crossovers are so utterly wonky. Some of this has to do with where we hear individually. My suggestion, rather than going on argument, is build a pair for yourself. Some kits start at $150 per pair: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/full-range-speaker-kits/ Some advantages are time co-incident, and point source behavior. That is, going off axis there are no possible lobing or interference patterns (depending on the actual driver design). In this way they act like the old thiel, and modern co-axial TAD or Kef designs. And let's face it, they appeal to the purists. Multi-way speakers, on the other hand, are complicated. Lots of capacitors, coils, resistors, etc. are all participating in the final result. It is fair to question whether any of this detracts from If you want a multi-way with an absolute minimalist crossover, consider the A26 kit: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/2-way-speaker-kits/seas-a26-10-2-way-kit-pair-based-on-the-cla... Best, E |
Voxativ used like with Pure Audio Project use woofers just formidbass,low bass the purity of the single driver can shine But No 1 driver can do it all. I havd iwned,No names these 15 inch Full range drivers ,in s proper large ,cabinet, they too have peaks At certain midrange frequencies that can be stringent . I now have a excellent monitor- monitor sudio New Studio coupled to their engineered stands. Flanked by good Subwoofers. And sounds Excellent- don't let the price throw you off it is more accurate then any speaker under $10k A Mega best buy,for under $2k buy at least 1 very good subwoofer I have their Silver W12selling st 45% off ,older model.,there are several very good Brands of Subwoofers |
As pointed out by some of the replies above, single drivers have wonderful midrange, speed, tone, timbre and clarity that is hard for mutiway drivers to match. For example, a piano covers a wide frequency range. The bass will be covered by a woofer, mids by either a smaller cone driver or a dome mid of different material, impedance, sensitivity, dispersion, compared to the woofer. And the high frequencies of the piano will be covered by a tweeter, again of different size, structure, performance, measurements etc compated to the mid and woofer. In a single driver, the entire piano’s frequency range is covered by the same driver acting as a point source, which is the ideal. Consistency, coherence, no phase changes, smmoth imoedance curve etc. Another key point of single drivers is the high sensitivy. They don’t need a lot of power. You can use direct heated single ended power amps. And that's another argument between solid state snd tube amps. Note that most owners of single drivers started with multiway systems. Keep an open mind, go listen to a well made single driver, anything from a Zu, Rethm, Voxactiv etc. Tell us your findings. You might end up joining the club. |
If your in the NJ, NY, Eastern PA area or you want to fly to Newark Liberty make an appointment with Brian of Charney Audio. He builds full range single driver rear loaded horns based on the Tractrix theory. I have had the pleasure of listening to Zu, Rethm, Beauhorn, Lamhorn, Horning, Cardersound, Cain&Cain, Voxativ and Carfrae. None of them can deliver the full spectrum of sound quality like the Charney Audio offerings! About a year ago I had the privilege of listening to the Charney Companion Lowther DX65 ($6500.00) next to the Voxativ Ampeggio Signature ($33,000.00) at a dealer. There was no compaison! Companion Lowther DX65 was superior to Ampeggio Signature in all areas! Imaging, soundstage, tonal balance, depth of field, and deep articulate bass. Yes I said deep articulate bass from a 5.5" driver, no sub needed! This from a speaker that is 1/5th the cost! Charney also offers the Companion with a Voxativ AR 2.6 driver ($8900.00) that slightly betters the DX65, but at a much higher cost. Find out for yourself with a visit to Charney Audio. http://charneyaudio.com/ |
Single drivers must be the future, we just need the engineering to catch up. Overnight multiways will become obsolete. In the meantime if you can live with their limitations then good for you. If you can't, then at least try to find a speaker where the entire midrange is covered by a single unit. Unfortunately, in a lot of speakers the crossover point could not be placed in a worse point. |
I cannot answer for the speakers above but I have built field coil speakers that will take your breath away. The need a fast sub to integrate with them but you cannot find or hear any other speaker that has the speed, clarity and musicality of them. The drivers used cost $3500 and up per pair that I used in building them. They are powered by a external power supply no crossovers here. Most speakers today are permanent magnet which means they have a fixed magnetic field created by a magnet. With a fixed magnet speaker the voice coil is suspended in a gap between the poles of the magnet. The voltage that is applied to the voice coil causes it to move in and out. A field coil speaker uses two coils; the voice coil and a field coil. Instead of a magnet, DC is applied to the field coil creating a magnetic field. This takes the place of the permanent magnet in creating the fixed magnetic field. Field coil-based drivers claim to drastically reduce distortion levels, and are able to control the driver much more accurately. Drivers in speakers vibrate up to thousands of times per second. Some claim that permanent magnets actually lose strength slightly with each vibration, causing a loss of low-level information and a blurring of the signal. Field coil drivers, with their own power supplies should not lose strength and so have much less distortion than their permanent magnet counterparts. Like electrostatic speakers, field coil speakers have to be plugged-in to work. The sound gets more relaxed as you lower the voltage, and the highs and lows will be more extended and detailed as you raise the voltage. What you hear is just pure music beautifully reproduced. Hope this helps. Happy Listening. |
@czarivey I heard the Cube Audio Magus speakers at AXPONA, they were playing a lot of old-school jazz and big-band (Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, etc). It sounded great - a lot more bass than you'd expect from a single-driver (the cabinets use quarter-wave transmission lines, so I'm sure that helped) and the treble was smooth and pleasant, I didn't feel like I was missing anything in the sound of the trumpets for example. I don't know how well they'd hold up to a full orchestral recording of Mahler's 2nd or Shostakovich's 5th, or if they'd be able to throw down some hard rock, I have a feeling that the single driver could easily get overtaxed if asked to reproduce a huge frequency range at high SPLs, but for what they were playing they sounded fantastic. |
@czarivey - 'single driver speakers can do good only on vocals and string quartets nothing else will be sounding up to par no matter whatcha do.' You have obviously not listened to the latest in single driver speakers. I also heard the Cube at AXPONA and agree with tutetibiimperes on how good they sounded. I have been the very happy owner of a pair of Omega Super Alnico Monitors, which are single driver speakers, and they are very good not only on 'small' music ranging from small acoustic combos, string quarters, Schumann vocal pieces, but also on 'larger' and more expansive music including Mahler (1st for me), Pink Floyd, the Who, and movie soundtracks (e.g., Pirates of Caribbean, Gladiator). Granted, one will not get the deepest vestiges of bass or sustained very high SPLs from a 6.5 inch driver, but they sure can convey an incredibly satisfying and realistic aural picture across a very wide spectrum of musical styles. You owe it to yourself to go out and hear what today's designers using single drivers are capable of achieving. |
This is the speaker for those who need more dynamics/SPL. The Super Alnico High Output is not a 2 way design, but a 1.5 way design. What separates it from a 2 way design? The drivers are identical exept for the dustcap of the low frequency (LF) driver. There is no power sucking, midrange muddying crossover. The LF driver is cut off at 200Hz, so there is no phase and time misalignment as in a two way speaker. The HF driver still functions as a single driver, single point source running full range. 2 drivers work less hard as 1 driver. Same combined surface area as a 9.5" single driver. Higher efficiency (97dB) More dynamic performance than a single driver. Will play louder than a single driver. Will handle more complex music than a single driver and is just as fast. Super Alnico High Output Specifications Sensitivity: 97 dB Impedance: 4-6 ohms Driver: Twin Proprietary 6.5" Omega Alnico HempCone (1 whizzer, 1 dustcap) Frequency Response: 35-20kHz Dimensions: (without spikes) 38"H x 9"W x 14"D Weight: 50 lbs. each in a shipping box Power Requirements: as little as 2 watts Crossover: None |
An easy entry to single driver is available at Madisound. The Markaudio Alpair 7 mounted in a recommended "Pensil" enclosure can provide a peek at the potential of single driver systems. The enclosures are easy to build and inexpensive using 3/4" plywood. The Pensil is a mass loaded transmission line, basically just a box with a slot at the bottom. Used in nearfield, some listeners may feel this is satisfying enough to not look elsewhere. At the total cost of under $300 including hardware and finishing, it might be worth a try. I have a pair of these and find them quite nice. As I indicated, they work well in the nearfield, Satisfying bass, very good detail, nice treble extension and smooth response. Dynamics are sharp. Soundstage and imaging reflect the quality of the upstream electronics and recording. I did not have the same kind of results with some of the other drivers in the Markaudio line or from other manufacturers. |
czarivey wrote: "
I heard most of Lowther single driver designs and made my conclusions after listening few." With all due respect, that's like stating that you rode in every trim model of the Chevy Cruze and so based on that experience you can comment on all 4-door automobiles. Single driver, HE speakers may not be your listening choice but please don't try to influence someone else based on your limited experience. |
Dear Otter Water , I had the same question 2 years ago . So I asked around like you did . After some research , I purchased a pair of used Zu Omens . The gentleman I purchased them from went on to buy Voxative and DeVore speakers ( both expensive ) . It’s apples to oranges for the comparison to big multi speaker systems . So on a budget ( $8k ), I have a tube pre, SEP 12 wpc amp , DAC , CD transport, Sub , and quality cabling . It does lack in certain areas . But the clarity , imaging and depth is phenomenal ! But you have to be in the SWEET SPOT . It’s like being in a pair headphones . Vocals and strings are unreal . Simple rock is clean . But something like “ Supertramp , Crime of the Century “ will have my system stumbling all over itself . I find my system best suited for late night listening alone . However Pink Floyd and the Beatles sound exceptionally good, and the bass is really impressive . If I jump from an El 34 to a KT 120 and play Grand Funk or Canned Heat, I can leave the sub off. If you remove the “ My dog is bigger then Your Dog “ comments , the info provided in this thread is correct , based on my limited experience . My next system will be big again. But before that happens , I’m going to get back into vinyl . My Schiit Yiggy and my MF transport can only do so much . The other big caveat is that my system will not make up for lesser quality recordings. Best wishes to you and if you take the leap , many places have a trial period. Respectfully, Mike B. |
Hello babyseaotter99, i can speak a bit to this topic, with limitations, of course. I built a pair of single driver speakers to use with a tube amp kit (Bob Latino ST-120 kit, 70 wpc). The drivers are Mark Audio Alpair 12p, cabinets are a slight variation of the Pencil design. The rest of the chain is Rotel CD player with Arcam irDac, ProJect Carbon Debut w/Ortofon Blue cartridge, Schiit Mani phono pre, Schiit Saga preamp. My experience has been this: single drivers are very nice for smaller scale music, but they fall short on bigger more complicate stuff, as to be expected. These particular drivers have a very long break-in (Mark Audio suggests 300 hours, the first 100, I think at very low volume), I’ve had them over a year and it feels like they are still mellowing out. Bass is very substantial for an 8” driver, and of nice quality too, considering the cabinet is vented (I’m learning that sealed cabinets are my thing!). Midrange is very pleasingly detailed on good recordings, especially on those less complicated ones (think jazz trios, chamber quartets, etc.). Where they fall very short is in treble quality, which can often sound etched and unnatural, sometimes even at low volumes. The pros: you can build your own speakers for pretty cheap, $300 drivers, $80 MDF, $30 other parts, no crossover, so simple and straightforward. The cons: they simply will not rock like a multi way, of course, so the program material they can handle is limited. Rickie Lee Jones and a piano will sound great, Metallica will not, especially as the volume goes up. For an investment of $400, you can have some fun and some speakers that can go head to head with ones I heard at Axpona this year that go for $4000. It’s much harder to get that kind of value in a multi way speaker. |
@seanheis1 Wow! Life must be tougher for audiophiles in America. So many choices and so much happening in the world of loudspeakers. Along with Devore and Zu there seems to a trend towards minimalist drivers and crossovers - and high efficiency paper cones too. This could well be another golden age of loudspeaker design. |
I have Loth-X Troubadours with 10 inch Stamm drivers in a folded horn construction. They are not made anymore. They are 104db so keep mobile phones away...they can be driven of a headphone amp! Using them with either 8 W pc 300b or 25 W pc 211 amps. Better than multiple drivers? Put it this way, I am also mastering and cutting records for a living, and I always bring the test pressings home to listen on the Loth-X set up. We have an awesome multi driver and 95db efficient setup using 211 tubes in the studio for mastering, which has superb resolution to 0.5 db, but it is the "nothing there" clarity of the Loth-X that is unbeatable. |
This article from Nelson Pass is a must read for those interested in this subject. It addresses many of considerations around matching amplifiers with the single driver speakers. http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_cs_amps.pdf |
I like full-range drivers, but, I particularly like them as extended range drivers in multi-driver systems. The Jensen/ERPI M-10 field-coil driver with a tweeter, as an example, makes quite an extraordinary system. I also heard a two-way system using the Japanese GIP-4165 field-coil driver (Western Electric clone) and that was killer good too. As for true full range, single driver systems, the best I've heard is probably the Charney with the Voxativ driver. It delivered the speed and immediacy of single driver systems without sounding harsh, nasal and peaked in the upper midrange and treble range; the primary shortcoming was a lack of high frequency extension. Voxative also makes a very good sounding full range system using its own drivers. A friend utilized a field-coil Feastrix driver in a nice custom system, but, it really needed something to boost the bass response. While I do like the immediacy and liveliness of the Western Electric/Altec 755 driver, it is WAY too colored and tinny for my taste in a single driver system. Its much rarer cousin, the 756 is a better driver, and it too, still needs a tweeter. The addition of a tweeter, even when the full-range driver is being run full-range (not being attenuated by the crossover), somehow smooths out the response and makes it less harsh and ragged sounding. |
They can do a hell of a good job due to: - much stronger magnets, especially when field coil - efficiency of driver...moves much faster and is so able to provide all needed frequencies while the other very important advantage is pin point imaging, but still wide sound stage, amazing dynamics and incredible sound coherence - cabinet construction enhances bass to sometimes incredible levels and also augments sensitivity - high efficiency leaves room for better and purer low output amps, to which such speakers remain more faithful in their reproduction of music than low efficiency drivers |
Yes, one of the best attributes of most single driver and horn systems is the ability to work with low-output amps. The only "high-powered" amp I liked a lot was a custom-built OTL amp that was massive in size; it turned out that it had an output of 30 watts. The only solid state amps I thought sounded decent were the First Watt F2 and an SIT amp that a friend built based on a First Watt schematic; both are pretty low on output. |
Sunshdw, I hope you are willing to share details about your single driver system, such as the kind of driver and the type of cabinet it is in. I have heard systems built around a pretty wide assortment of drivers--from modest Tang Band drivers (quite good) to Feastrix field coil drivers (a friend got them at a super bargain price of $18k for a pair) to 1940-50 drivers--and they all share an immediacy and liveliness that is quite addicting. I have also seen such drivers used in a wide array of cabinets--transmission lines, back-loaded horns, open baffle, sealed box, bass-reflex--so I am curious how you did your system. |
cd3181,708 posts05-13-2018 10:08amSingle drivers must be the future, we just need the engineering to catch up. Overnight multiways will become obsolete. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This has been my mantra here on audiogon past few months, Single/Point Source is the Future, but the future is NOW. PS is The 21st Century Speaker. Its just that the audiophile community and I fully understand why,,,has yet to awaken and grasp the new technology, The why is this. We were all raised on going to our local audio shops, with rooms full of *speakers* We called them *loud* speakers. Little did we know the old old technology, = Field Coil, has been scraped, for the *new* xover box things. No wonder we would test endlessly, A/B/C , etc, using the rotary switch in the listening room, walking away abit disappointed. The one line that did offer some high fidelity was Jensen, with horns and Field Coils. But of course that did not hold, away they went. fast forward, Folks continue to this very day, June23,2021, to purchase box/xover designs with absoluetly no thought whatsoever about Point Source/Field Coils. My guess is even IF FC's sold for $1,000, folks would continue to pass and purchase $$$$$$$$ brand X,Y,Z box/xover dinasaurs. Such is our world today. No the world is not flat. 1000 years ago they would have thrown you in prison for lunacy. Nice Day The Hifi Guy New Orleans |
nickolaspappas27 posts05-11-2019 12:05pmYou can’t understand what “coherent” means until you’ve heard a good single driver speaker. They have their weaknesses (like everything), but they have a naturalness and coherence that nothing else can compete with. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Exactly, I've been experiementing with various cheap chinese *full range/point source* drivers, Reaction: WOWWW,. Out came the brand new Millennium tweeters ($700 sold on ebay $300 $400+ loss in 1 month) Now a 4 inch *full range takes its place along with a 1963 horn, combo annihilates the top of the line dome tweeter. **weaknesses* Maybe a tad bass shy, maybe a tad roll off in highs, MAYBE, not sure as i've not heard the new high tech PS drivers in person. But from some research. those *weaknesses* can easily be forgiven , when we look at the plethora, abundant weaknesses inherent in xover/box designs. After hearing this cheap PS, there is no xover/box design that would eve offera slight interest, not even Troel Gravesen's Seas/Scapspeak world class designs are of any interest whatsoever. The only speakers that exist for me are the new high tech Point Source/Field Coils. All others are dinasaurs. If I need bass, I can easily find bass, If I need highs I can easily find highs to help out a single source speaker. Its the mids which are the single most critical fq range which TG's designs fail in. Yes if you are listening Troels, your speakers are a *wet blanket* vs the new high tech PS/FC designs. Will Scanspeak/Seas ever come around to accepting the new high tech? Doubt it, Both are old school, not in step with the modern world. Ask yourself, are you in the old world technology or are you willing to enter into The New 21st C Speaker Experience. This is what every audiophile should ask themselves. The Hifi Guy New Orleans |
larryi2,527 posts05-22-2018 1:38pm I like full-range drivers, but, I particularly like them as extended range drivers in multi-driver systems. The Jensen/ERPI M-10 field-coil driver with a tweeter, as an example, makes quite an extraordinary system. I also heard a two-way system using the Japanese GIP-4165 field-coil driver (Western Electric clone) and that was killer good too. As for true full range, single driver systems, the best I've heard is probably the Charney with the Voxativ driver. It delivered the speed and immediacy of single driver systems without sounding harsh, nasal and peaked in the upper midrange and treble range; the primary shortcoming was a lack of high frequency extension. Voxative also makes a very good sounding full range system using its own drivers. A friend utilized a field-coil Feastrix driver in a nice custom system, but, it really needed something to boost the bass response. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Yes I am usinga 4 inch point source (DL off ebay, $200) with a 1963 Magnovox horn tweeter, Wonderful combo, beats any xover/box design I've ever heard in my experience of 40 years. Jensen made incredible FC's back in its day. The Vox you speak of, is not far off entering my system, maybe late September. I have bass, so not at all important if the Vox rolls on the low end. High end either, the horn will come in handy, if not needed, off it goes. Might end up as a 3 way. W18E001's dual each channel, + Vox + Magnovox horn. We;'ll have to see how testing goes, btw I've listened to some YT clips of the Feastrex, speaker seemed a bit bass shy. And at that price, you would expect, solid bass. However, Feastrex does offer many models, particularilly their massive NEO magnet driver. But these are out my budget. The AER lab/germany also sound very special, but not in my budget. |
Someone please help me out here... I am struggling to understand ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For 2 years I would look and look, and look over DL's PS drivers on ebay,,having no clue what they were all about, But maybe they were more than something cool looking. I finally figured out what you , back then in 2018, were *struggling** to grasp. I;ve got the whole equation, puzzle all figured out now. Took some experimentation, and thinking, thinking, pondering, tweaking, adding, subtracting. I just hung on and now have all the answers. The PS technology is from 1929, and had some developments over the years, Then died away completely, Now has resurfaced as The New 21st C Super High Tech Speakers. My guess is , if the Tampa bay Audio Show has these New tech speakers, news will spread like wildfire, and you will have a wait time of months to get your order filled. These things are not mass produced. But surely worth the wait. |
Good quality single driver speakers tend to excel in coherency, which to me is a key ingredient for the highest quality sound. That to me alone explains the attraction, regardless of the downside. All designs have advantages and disadvantages. How those factor into a final value judgement is completely up to the individual. There are also many time and or phase "coherent" multi-driver designs out there to compete. Ohm Walsh/CLS, Thiel, Kef UniQ, Tannoy concentric driver designs, mbl, for example, are some that come to mind. I currently own both Ohm Walsh/CLS (coherent line source) and kef UniQ-based speakers (ls 50s and ls 50 metas). I’m a tough sell personally for any speaker design that is not inherently "coherent" . Large speakers with multiple drivers all spread out seldom cut it for me in comparison. Requires a very large room for those to integrate time coherently at ones listening location. |
It’s been around for a long time, The point is it will NEVER catch on. For those that think a single driver can do it all, good for you. It can’t. OLD hat, old tec.. 300hz and below a round VC speaker with tuned phase plugs. 300 hz and up Small Planars or ribbons. NOTHING even gets close, to that combo, EXCEPT more of the same... I did hear a few Narrow Baffle LS dome systems that were pretty good.. I’ve use a narrow baffle 10" or less for over 20 years, THAT was the real game changer for me. A single driver NO WAY.. 2 watt amps are fun too, just MOST people don’t use them. It’s as simple as that. The FUN wore off quick for me.. I was 25 or so I’m 66 now.. I still have a SET or two around here.. Cute things. Kinda’ like Tribbles on Star Trek. BTW this is POST 40+ in over THREE YEARS.. No it’s NOT what’s to come AT ALL.. Maybe 5 in the last 2 years, AY? I admire your tenacity if nothing else.. Show me something GREAT. I'm all ears.. Regards |
There are also many time and or phase "coherent" multi-driver designs out there to compete. Ohm Walsh/CLS, Thiel, Kef UniQ, Tannoy concentric driver designs, mbl, for example, are some that come to mind. I currently own both Ohm Walsh/CLS (coherent line source) and kef UniQ-based speakers (ls 50s and ls 50 metas).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ OK fair N sqaure,. One size does not fit all. Agree. Have not lsitened to any of these speakers you mention. Heard much raves on the Tannoy Concentric. have no idea on the prices which is a concern for me and many others here, considering the economy straights of late. So seems PS does have competeing designs. I'll accept. I will now take a look at some of the speakers you mention on prize, szie, weight and if YT has some offerings. I can tell you this 1929 FC has a alluring stage presence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrqv5nOjLuw |
think a single driver can do it all, good for you. It can't.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ AS I've frequently mention when speaking of PS drivers, I am not looking fora BE All End All speaker. Only need midrange, nothing else, I have bass and highs in my system. I need midrange. Thats all I need, nothing else, nothing more. My hunch is these new PS are exactly what i've been looking for all these decades, but could not figure out the puzzle. I've got all the pieces now, the puzzle will soon be completed. HifiGuy |
FUN wore off quick for me.. I was 25 or so I'm 66 now.. I still have a SET or two around here.. Cute things.
~~~I;ll soon be 66, Never been, nor ever will makea buy ona SET, I will a 12 tube PP amp for the PS driver I intend to purchase in sept. maybe not ideal match, , but will have to work out as my bass speakers are 87db,. SET. won't work. I need slam to get the W18's to respond, And I listen to major full orch music, SET again abit anemic for my music needs. |
Again If anyone here can put up a fast shooter that will out draw this 1929 Field Coil in midrange/vocal PRESENCE. Please post, and meet at the OK Corral, sundown,. btw did not care for any of your 3 speaker choices. back to Square 1 The 1929 Field Coil design. Few xover/boxes can match this midrange/voice presence. Unreal WE all been on the wrong path to speaker heaven. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrqv5nOjLuw |
Strunz & Farah "Rainmaker" is one of my test tracks.. If a speaker system can get by that track and sound GREAT.. I'm all for it.. RMx Elixirs or RM30, MY MB columns and GRs OB servo system.. I've heard better but 10X my price range and 10X the cost to treat a room to make them work right.. A 1k system was great to get my attention. It took a 10k system, to beat that. AND a 100k system to beat that.. 10k is fine, 1K is even better. :-) Regards |
First, I would like to correct something I said above--The Charney speaker that I really liked was the Companion with the AER driver, although the Voxativ driver was a pretty close second (AER had better top end extension). I would like, someday, to hear the bigger Concerto speaker. The Charney and Voxativ Ampeggio are the only single-driver systems (not counting coaxial speakers) that I found to be complete in their capability and lacking in excessive tonal coloration. The realm of fullrange driver systems becomes much more interesting when such drivers are used in multi-way systems. An ideal system, to me, would be an old Jensen M10 field coil used as a woofer/midrange and a Western Electric 597 field coil tweeter. The cabinet would have an open back (to allow for cooling of the field coil drivers) so it would be, in essence, an open baffle system. I've heard such a system with the M10 and a Jensen RP302 tweeter and can only imagine how much better the 597 tweeter would be. Nonetheless, I don't think any one particular approach is the be-all-and-end-all. I have heard plenty of systems using all kinds of wildly different drivers and approaches that sound quite good, although good in different ways. For the crowd that appreciates the dynamics, immediacy and lively realism of full/wide range drivers, there are other approaches that work well too. I happen to like multi-way systems with compression driver/horn midranges and tweeters. |
