What directions? What is the point of asking if you heard the praise already? Not saying it is good or bad, but if I heard praise already then... just fill it in yourself.
Assuming you have a specific question, the older Yorke tables were considered excellent in their time. But they needed a few things to get there. Vibraplane and Walker Motor drive. Newer ones have an updated motor and power supply. In comparison to other turntables I would say the older has been improved on significantly and "passed" in terms of sonic capability. This is from intimate knowledge of the table, hearing it repeatedly in familiar systems.
I heard the new one in RMAF, but the sound was not to my taste. I have no idea if that is the room or turntable or speakers etc.
So, you could not differentiate what contributed to what you heard and to what degree. Not to say that it is easy.
Also, you didn't say that the sound was not good. What was in that system besides the Simon Yorke?
Inna, perhaps you should contact a dealer to audition one for yourself. I am the US distributor so I may be biased, but the Yorke play music in a very compelling manner. Please email me off line so I can recommend the closest dealer to you. Cheers!
I've heard the S7 and S10 and while the S7 in it's day was good the S10 is overpriced IMO. No support for alternative arms is also a problem. There are now more tables to choose from that are priced lower and sound better...yes this is only IMHO; others just listen for yourself and you will know.
Just to be clear...I owned an S7 for several years....took me forever to sell it and I thought I was going to go for an S10 until I heard one and saw the price! Now there are S7's and have seen several S10's for sale that can not be given away!!!!!!!!!
I owned an older S9 and heard an S10 several years back when they first came out and always thought I'd eventually own an S10 but now with other tables that have come to the market and agree with busypk that I've followed agon sales of the S10 and it seems these owners cannot even give away S10's and the price you can pick-up an S7 is stupidly low!
To clarify a couple of things, the S10 was designed to work with the arm that is supplied for the best possible sound. As some audiophiles prefer playing with audio gear more than just enjoying the work as a complete machine, there are many tabless out there to toy with if such is ones desire. I don't know about not being able to give stuff away, but Simon has about a two month waiting list for his record players.Everybody is entitled to their opinions and feelings. In light of all that's out there, well they each may appeal to a certain taste or want. But the S10s were built to be as truthful to the music as possible and present it in an organic way.
However if you want to flavor it you may do so with a cartridge that suits your desire.
With the S10 being a precision machine it it's important that it's set up properly.Like any turntable even adjusting the tension of a screw will change the way it sounds.Even a modest $300 table can demonstrate this. Unfortunatly, when doing consultions out it the field I too often even
selfcalimed analog experts often have simple things like even the level not set properly. Just an example not meant to offend any one.
As I have always told my clients over the years, judge for yourself if something is good, if it talks to you then...
Looking at all the tables out there the Yorkes quality of build and the ways it can play music to let you experience music on a deeper level. It is a bargain.
Best Value? What is the going rate or value for an meaningful pleasure, or a work or art? I don't know the answer but I do know that with all the fine tables out there, the Yorkes do some thing the no tables I've heard do.If one owns a large collection of music not audiophile recordings then you will find the Yorkes to be quite special. But to manipulate the designs to make it do audiophiles things, well there are other turntables out there for that purpose.
Toneofmusicaudio, excellent post. Thank you.
Thank you Inna,also to correct myself.I meant to say:If one owns a large collection of music not[just] audiophile recordings then you will find the Yorkes to be quite special...
15 years back at 1995, I decide to upgrade from the Simon's "Zarathustra S4" to the just available "System 7". I was so much dissapointed with the empty, lifeless, flat & tin sound of his new S7, that I end-up buying the megabuck Symphonic Line RG6 in a desparate decision for a more involving & sensual source that can move my senses to an emotional & not just the usual Hi-Fi level.
Unfortunately my set-up those days (top Goldmund pre & monos) was based on different priorities : (extreme speed, delicacy & merciless accuracy) & so, the absolute rejection of my new gigantic turntable was painful & terrifing. Then I put back my "S4" & my Denon DP80 & so, everything went great in a perfectly balanced match. Instead, in disregard, I've went for selling my precious Goldmund stuff & replaced it with SET 'cause I've just discover my detestation of the emotionless monitoring listening.
What I've learn from this bitter experience, is that everything has a flavor to match & I believe that it's not right to make a purchase if we were not in a position to clear our requirements first, defining the direction our system we want to take, in order to satisfy our taste & justify our expence.
What was happened then, was that the "System 7" was even more accurate than the "Zarathustra S4" & so, my conclusion of buying the Symphonic Line RG6 was a reflection of my priorities & taste but in no way characterise the Simon's creativity as limited or incapable to satisfy the demanding listener. My other 3 friends that purchase the "S4" have keep it till today with no regrets & are still very reluctand to upgrade, while their systems are among the finest & most sophisticated I've ever heard. That the "S4" is capable to bring forth all the tiny differences of each of the revewed components, is the unmistakable indication of the critical & inventive Simon's mind.
Above that, I must testify my experience with him as a refreshing & unexpected relief as I witness a true artisan that it's ethos & honesty drives him away of the sponsor's demands, ( I read with my own eyes a note in a paper tissue that left to our previous local distributor when he leave those year's Audio Show : "I WILL NOT PROSTITUDE MY ART FOR MONEY". Can you imagine, if only we have a handfull like him in the industry, what integrity & progression could we possibly may reach ?
Today, I can honestly say with confidence that my Symphonic Line RG6 is inferior as a truthful source & it doesn't have the qualities that I was looking back then, only an overplethoric personality that can no longer fool me. It's imposing sight, mirrors it's bold & always big sound no matter what LP is playing & in this regard, I don't trust this stable performance as I feel it is permanently spreading it's flavour everywhere, giving a faulty impression of robustness even in the most sensitive & delicate signals. I would have trust my Goldmunds back then, but it was so difficult to recognise & accept that my new, expensive & highly praised by TAS turntable was a cheater.
My advice is to find a well keeped "Zarathustra S4". Mark Levinson has choose it as the Cello turntable back then (if this has any meaning for you), the British magazines were highly praised it as the only class A turntable when matched with the "Pluto 5A" & this may be the only problem ... you can not match it with an "SME V".
I once ask Simon why he abandoned the suspension in his tables & he told me that it is more difficult to integrate but also restrictive for it's ZEN perspective. Unfortunatelly his latest creations demands extra deep pockets to purchase & extra care to properly set on the right foundation. But those turntables are not for the usual inexperienced & clueless fashion victim. They made exclusively for the dedicated connoisseur that knows exactly how & precisely where he guides it's utterly accurate system.
I apologise for this unecessary reply, but I have to do it as a confession & expiation for my ignorance, giving back the credit to where it deserves to be.
Thank you, George, for taking your time and writing these very helpful things in a personal manner.
When I ask a question here that doesn't mean that I am going to rush and buy something right away; it is more a matter of understanding the perspective for the future.
Simon Yorke turntables appear to be generally underrated but highly praised by some very serious audiophiles and music lovers, and also by places like famous museums and libraries. When it comes to the source I value the ability to extract as much information as possible from the recording of any quality with minimal distortions. Most of my favourite music has not been recorded well, and there is nothing I can do about it.It seems that his turntables are built following exactly the same idea. No wonder archives all over the world get these turtables. I would guess that they are very reliable as well, and once set-up maintain it.
I thought the best audiophile turntable value was a technics 1200?
TW Acustic table best value best sound.
TTWeights GEM table best value best sound!!!!!!
"They made exclusively for the dedicated connoisseur that knows exactly how & precisely where he guides it's utterly accurate system."
I agree, and I might add not for the typically gullible audio consumer you might find on some forums.
Its unfortunate that these forum discussions can sometimes get out of hand when (a) members words get nitpicked or(b) some posters with less than honorable intentions chime in to tear down a genuinely good piece of work because their friend is no longer affiliated with the Simon Yorke Designs, especially when the same poster can be found to say it was amazing elsewhere in the Audiogon forums.
To reiterate what I had posted previously in another way: the Yorkes will sound like what is connected ahead of it and behind it. I think Gearge found this out when he had it is his Goldman system, not to say the Goldman is bad but a system is made of the sum of its parts...or the speakers,room cables,amp combo did not click. We tend to assemble systems than flatter our existing gear for better or for worse...Simon Yorke dealers are well trained and will perform the installation and guide client through any step to get the best sound from their investment.
What the Yorkes do is extracts alot of music off the wax. If one wants to attain a certain sound from it, well simply mate it with the cartridge and electronics "you like". Put on any cartridge and you will easily hear the cartridges "house sound" Lyras are amazingly fast and resolving, Koetsus have a spooky mid range presence, Air tight's PC1 is rich,full bodied and nimble, just to name a few.
Simon did not set out to make his players to "sound a certain way".I will not even use the world neutral as it has taken on a life of its own... A couple of things I found when playing records on his players is that I find myself less concerned with the usual audiophile trappings like listening for the width and depth of the soundstage or how loud is the scuffle of sheet music as musicians turn the page during a performance, but find myself hearing the interactions of the musicians or the way a player leans into a note of backs off it.
Another observation is, I started listening to music that used to fly over my head and some records that I had for years that I wanted to understand more about but could not listen through a whole track with out being distracted until I heard it on the Yorkes. One such record is Cecil Taylor's "Unit Structures" lp on Blue Note records. Admittedly free jazz is not my favorite type of jazz, personal favorites include soul jazz, hard bop almost anything jazz recorded before 1968 and some contemporary jazz.. . When I dropped the needle on this record, what I came to realized was: the record was full of energy and motion, darting ideas and sporadic burst of tonal color floating on an elliptical sense of time constructed within a looser framework than just simply playing on 2 and 4 beats of more traditional time signature but the band was using all time signatures briefly as they needed and moved on. Perhaps this was "beauty" of this record... I ended up Listening to the whole side of the record...
Most music lovers,audiophiles are bright folks,though my wife does question my mental capacity more than one a week :-) regularly, I don't think you can fool anybody into buying anything if they are not moved to do so.
George please accept my apologies for misspelling you name.
TW Acustic table best value best sound
I think, you got the wrong thread for this answer. This is is a thread about serious turntables, which doesn't color the reproduction.
I listened to the S7 some years ago, side by side with a Basis Debut and it was a joy to listen to. But I agree with some others, it is a product for those who understand what they hear. There are enough other "Turntables" out there for those who think that black and heavy is the pinnacle of engineering.
Thank you all who positively contributed to the discussion.
Since there is no way that I can afford Simon Yorke in the next, say, five years, I got me Nottingham Spacedeck/Spacearm table which, I believe, is another great value at a lower level of performance.
Just one of many great turntables sorry Syntax.Everyone likes somthing Black and heavy thats what i like.Simon Yorke is great table as well.Many people like TW ACUSTIC as well.Whatever you have beats digital anyway.
Every one Likes Something Black And Heavy??? I guess EBM speaks for everybody... If preconceived audiophile notions as to what is the pinnacle of design to recreating a musical experience is big black and heavy... well, we are in alot of trouble. Its a good thing that most Yorke owners spend more time listening to music than surfing the internet and justifying their investment.
IM relly sorry i got on this thread i just meant TW ACUSTIC is another Great table. Please lighten up.Thanks tone music audio a dealer sorry again.