Simaudio Moon w5.3se

I see that a prominent online retailer is now offering these at 50% off. Im interested in trying one due to the 30 day return policy. Cant seem to find much info of relevance on this piece. Anyone own or have experience with this piece?
IMO, pretty much anything produced by Jean Poulin, designer and company president of Simaudio is going to be very good to outstanding. I put them in the same category as recommending Cary, Krell, Conrad-Johnson, Audio Research, McIntosh, or McCormack.

Not only are they designed with top quality parts they look fantastic and sound great. Excellent warranty and good resale value. Enjoy!
I would agree,ive had some sim gear in the past and quality is outstanding.I dont think you could go wrong for 50% off,i dont think youll want to return it either!
I feel the above statement is far from true. There are no miracles in high-end audio. If something sells for 50% off, well, it might be because that's what it's worth. The manufacturer might decide on a selling price, but it's eventually the market that has the ultimate say.

Have you ever seen Spectral at 50 off? How about Audio Research or any of the others mentionned so far?

In full disclosure I had faulty Moon products on two occasions from the house of Jean Poulin. Neither the dealer or manufacturer would give me the time of day following my troubles.

Don't get me wrong, they make good products and above all, compensate ordinary sound with exceptional good-looking metal work. But in my book they are not worth the money. You can do a lot better for the price. But if you can get it at 50 off, it is of course worth considering, but not an automatic recommendation. But in the same league as Audio Research? Forget it.
I wouldn't be as harsh as Sonicbeauty as the equipment is quite good but their non-transferable warranty policy does suck. I think a major factor is that Simaudio read all their own reviews years ago and decided that thier prices could be a lot higher - about 50% or so;-)
With that said, you can't go wrong with their equipment but there is a lot out there that will satisfy you just as well at that price-point.

Performance-wise, I disagree with Sonicbeauty - it is in the same league. You just have to pick the right component for comparison. Everyone has their preferences though and I respect that.

The Simaudio amp in question is not a new model. Initially came out in 2007, an SE version in 2009.

30 years of excellent reviews, great warranty and industry respect is not happenstance.

I respectfully disagree with your point of view.

IMO you are mistaken and I will explain why.

A). I have bought Audio Research for more than 50% off brand new with a warranty.
There are a few dealers who get offered inventory that has not sold and is sitting in a warehouse collecting dust. Sometimes a newer model is released and the stock needs to go. I have purchased such equipment myself and have the receipts to prove it.

B). If someone did buy a Spectral amp for 50% off, the last thing they would do is announce it to everyone.

{I cannot speak to other manufacturers, but I would think that this happens more than we know. especially with tier 1 dealers who move a lot of product.}

C). Have you seen the prices for "refurbished" Pass Labs equipment from Reno Audio? They are indistinguishable from new. Once they add a new faceplate or new posts the units are like new, they are tested and resold.

As an additional example;
Right now in the speaker listings there are many 10/10 "New in box with warranty" speakers from very high end mfgrs being sold at 60+% off list.

The price something is retailed at means zero in audio. I agree margins can be quite high but that is immaterial to this discussion and in no way reflects how a component will perform in any given system regardless of price.

That is my point of view. Cheers!
Thanks for your posts everyone. I went ahead and ordered one. If I dont like it after 30 days Im only out return shipping. Worth a shot to me.
Be sure to tell us pros and cons mr. wino??
Will do.
Tom6897, I appreciate your point of view, but it is unfortunately flawed. It is somewhat unfair to throw in refurbished equipment in the mix, or ''B'' stock. Now maybe the 50% off Sim is on those types of products. If you get a refurbished Pass Labs units at a great price, then all the better!

Sorry, but a zillion years of product reviews (and quite a few ''paid'' info-mercial reviews) sure has value, as many folks trust those for purchasing decisions. But it quickly becomes futile and zero-credibility if you had your own negative experience to counter-balance this.

I am talking negative experiences that not only were quite frustrating, but that has cost me money (a good sum of it).

And this happened TWICE to me. First time was on an i-5 integrated, where a static discharge sent my volume from min to max in a half second, blowing my expensive speakers.

After much haggling, and after admitting to a faulty circuit, they applied the old Kodak policy, you know, they replaced the $ 2.99 film but your memories where out the window. So, even though the trouble was manufacturer related, I of course had to pay for an expensive speaker repair.

Still, I gave Sim another shot, as I have always said I liked their killer looks, and besides, I am Canadian and this is a Canadian company.

But a demo integrated at a reputable (what a joke) dealer - let's suppose you buy a current-year demo car at your local car dealer. One with 5,000 miles on it. Meaning you ALMOST paid full price minus a small discount.

Then you find out car doesn't have 5,000 miles, but really 50,000 miles on it - and on top of this, it had been in 3 times already for servicing for a particular problem, and that problem still wasn't fixed?

You obviously phone the dealer - He wont take back the unit, or even pay for the repair - and sends you over to the manufacturer - who in turn protects his dealer and Ping-Pong you back to the him in a frustrating time-wasting endless argumental spiral.

I ended up saying to myself, ''the hell with this'' and just accepted the loss.

My one regret. Not coming out on the forums and blasting away at my disgust with both the manufacturer and his dealer.

Even today, I feel like just naming names, but I won't do it.

But don't ever, ever tell me Simaudio is ''in the same league'' as a manufacturer that stands behind their products.

If at least they would sound the price, but again, this is very subjective, they do not.

After giving Simaudio my hard-earned money on two occasions only to get shafted twice, I figured I've earned the right to put 'em on my ''never again'' list.

Sorry for venting this way, but it is the hard truth.

I can understand, however, how their design and sound can be attractive to many - just not to me - and OF COURSE I am now negatively biased. Just as those that are POSITIVELY biased and feel that talking against a product they purchased for themselves is like an insult and a slap in the face.

Such is the state of our passion-driven hobby.

But in the process, one must respect himself, right?
I bought a pair of Simaudio W-6 monoblocks to drive Dynaudio C-4's. I was very disappointed in them... cheap construction and mediocre sound. I sold them after a week of audition. I would never buy Simaudio gear again. Musical Fidelity is in the same league in my experience. YMMV.

Point taken.
I hope your future experiences with your audio equipment bring nothing but pleasant memories!
Sonic, Im sorry for your past troubles,and hope your rant has left you feeling better. If I were you, I WOULD name names,if for nothing but giving a heads up to your fellow hobbyists. Also, if youve been around this sight long enough, Im sure youve noticed rants similar to your own against just about every single manufacturer. It is unfortunate when this happens ( shit customer service ), but unfortunately it does. I was soliciting opinions about a specific piece of equipment,and though your response is of little use to me, I will certainly consider your experience with this company as worth knowing about.

Winoguy, I appreciate your comment, and I understand you completely about my post not helping much. By the same token, I reacted against a comment (not by you) where the brand was put on some sort of pedestal - sometimes you need to react to even things out if you know what I mean.

I am without words as why I never received any kind of apology from this Costa person at Simaudio. He probably doesn't come to Audiogon and other forums at all. If he did, his ears would probably be ringing by now!

In all fairness, Sim gear is probably very fine by now, but at what cost to discontented previous owners?

This is where companies like Bryston put their money - and reputation - where their mouth is whith their incredible transferable warranty.

I have never owned Bryston, but I would in a heartbeat if only for this.

And it probably sounds quite nice, and is more than adequately put together, to say the least.
Sonic, thanks for the courteous reply. I didnt want this thread to degenerate into a snipe fight. Also,I hope you are right about this new piece, and all your future purchases are great ones.
Wino hows that badboy sounding???
Digs, I was going to wait a little longer before offering up any comment, but since you asked...
For starters: the salesman told me to give it at least 100 hrs. before serious listening, the owners manual advises 300. As of today, I have approx. 40 hrs. of actual playing time on it, so if you're a big believer of break-in ( I am),consider that. Please be aware that I am a far cry from a professional reviewer.
I also try to avoid hasty review of new gear,as I believe that many times we can be fooled into believing that " different = better ". Time has shown that to be wrong on several occasions! That being said:
I really like what I am hearing. Most noticeable difference is the sense of air and better separation of instruments. Music sounds more lifelike and open,and the treble is definitely sweeter and more extended. My wife said it sounds "live". I agree. I have noticed what appears to be a slight graininess in the upper mids at times,but this seems to be lessening,and Im hoping it is a residual of lack of break-in. The low end is a new experience for me. While not perceivably going as low as my prior amp,it is a much more visceral and physical experience. Twice I have gotten up to answer the door because I swore someone was pounding on it!I also have literally jumped several times at sudden climaxes or loud intros, even tho' I knew they were coming. The wife left the room to answer what she thought was the phone in another room. At this time, I feel that this amp imparts a physical presence that I have never felt prior.I still have 2 weeks left to play before making a final decision,so I will try to use them as best I can. I will never be able to get 100 hrs(much less 300), but I hope to at least have a good idea of what this amp is all about in the next 2 weeks. It is a very good looking piece, and it has not gotten barely warm after 4-6 hrs of playing hard. I do realize also what a good amp I already have,it surely isnt embarrased being up against something that retails over 4x its original cost.
In a nutshell, I am enjoying this piece quite a bit,I just want to give it 2 more weeks and make sure my impressions remain the same. If you are interested and I do keep it, I will update this down the road. Thanks for your interest.
Forgot to add, I am also using the new PS Audio AC10 power cord on it. $950. retail,they threw it in as part of the deal.
thx winoguy17. I saw the same ad you are talking about, and fantasized about purchasing. I have used Sim in the past, and their LE/SE version tend to be outstanding performers.
And I have a suggestion winoguy: to break in the amp more quickly to achieve those 100-300 break-in hours, can you let the amp just run 24/7 at a low volume? or just let it run while you are at work or sleeping? That way, you can get the break in time you need well before your 30 day trial is up.
thx winoguy17. I saw the same ad you are talking about, and fantasized about purchasing. I have used Sim in the past, and their LE/SE version tend to be outstanding performers.
And I have a suggestion winoguy: to break in the amp more quickly to achieve those 100-300 break-in hours, can you let the amp just run 24/7 at a low volume? or just let it run while you are at work or sleeping? That way, you can get the break in time you need well before your 30 day trial is up.
Check out the Van Alstine Snyergy integrated amp. It is plain and some features smartly have been eliminated. It is 100RMS, but I can't find one review. Van Alstine sent me a copy of a review of his power amp; the integrated amp "supposedly" uses a scaled down version of the basic power amp He offers a 30 day trial period. The Sim I5.3 is 85 RMS, and may have more features than it needs. I would like to see responsders to your thread provide some info on the Van Alstine integrated vs the Sim Audio I5.3
With all due repect, if youre seeking info on a specific piece of gear, why dont you start a thread on that instead of hijacking mine? What does a Van Alstine integrated have to do with my OP?
I have owend both Van Alstine and Sim. Both are good, just a little different. In this case, it would depend on which one worked best in a given system. This would not be a situation where one "smokes" another.
TO Kclone: Thank you for answering my simple question.

Winoguy needs to chill out a bit. For the record, 1) I did have my own thread regarding the VA integrated, with no responses, and it concerned only the Van Alstine 2)I also saw the ad: the price seems attractive considering how grossly overpriced Sim electronics are 3)I had no intention of of "hijacking" your thread. Like all of us, there are some members seeking information, that does not necessarily warrant creating a new thread.

Lastly, this is a hobby, not to be confused with stealing national security secrets. Take a Valium, and count backward from 100
I'm a huge Sim fan. They are expensive and Van Alstine is better in price for performance. However, the W5.3 SE's are being sold at a great deal price right now. It may be hard to find a better amp at the current deal price.
I looked very closely at the 5.3SE myself. I ended up finding a "near mint" one owner Jeff Rowland Model 112. What an amp. beautiful too. I have listened to the 5.3SE several times at a dealers location. Try to use an all copper or copper/silver power cable of 8-10AWG, direct from the wall. I think you will be very happy with it.

OK Sunnyjim, I'll take a valium if you take some reading comprehension courses,dickwad.
I said,Hey, you, get off my thread.
Hey, you, get off my thread.
Hey, you, get off my thread.
Don,t hang around cause two's a crowd
On my thread.
(Winoguy17 Jagger and Sunnyjim Richards)
TO WINOGUY: IS IT NECESSARY TO USE LANGUAGE LIKE DICKWAD?? It only illustrates what a low life you are, and not worthy of being a member of this blog. Maybe you should take courses in manners and language skills until you are housebroken,and ready for civilization.

Should you have missed it, read the responses of "Tom6897" and Kclone. They don't engage in name calling because they are intelligent; obviously you are not
Now children, go to your rooms for time out.
WOW BUNNYTIM YOU ARE SUCH A MEANIE!! But I do agree that Tom6897 is intelligent, because he clearly addresed my original post. I clearly asked about A) a specific model POWER amp by B) a specific manufacturer. Your response? "Try this INTEGRATED amp by a totally different manufacturer" Again, I suggest you spend some time with reading comprehension, and it sounds like YOU could use the valium. Peace
...and thanks to Kclone and everyone else for your responses.
Do you find the Sim 5.3SE to be overwhelming in the bass on the MS4s?

{I have a 16x22x9 foot mutipurpose room = 350 ft squared [tv room with large couch, computer desk-everything room for my one bedroom aptmt}
No, bass is excellent, fast,tight and punchy. I sent you an e mail.
I have heard/owned the W3 and W7. I liked the W3 better because it was warmer sounding. How about the W5.3 SE, is it warmer or is it like the newer trend towards more transparency and detail, which sounds great on well recorded material, but not so much on other recordings that a most of us own a lot of?
Well, at the risk of sounding wishy-washy,I'll say both. I can really only compare it to what it replaced ( McCormack dna225) which I thought was a great amp. The Sim has added a level of finer detail that I never noticed before,and it also seems to put more space between instruments. It does not do this at the expense of sounding forward,hyper,or fatiguing. I think it is very balanced, having excellent bass and treble extension,but I would not refer to it in either extreme ( warm vs hyper detailed). Does that make any sense?!
Yes, that makes sense. Thanks Winoguy.