I just read the review of the PL 300 in Sterophile last night, and I have to say that if I used a high power amplifier and I could afford it, I would be really tempted. It seems that Monitor Audio has really jumped ahead of the pack, and the prices aren't crazy considering their performance and what their competitors are charging, like the Vandersteen Model 7, just to pull one out of the air.
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The are far ahead of many brands. But......when you focus on their commercial power, they are far behind of a brand like B&W.
Audio these days is more build on money than on real and honest quality. People believe more in words than in ’real’ quality.
I always ask my clients: What would you like to hear? The truth or the things you would like to hear?
Many people will choose for the last. I had many conversations about this with a friend who is a psychologist. Most people choose for what they think is the most safe way.
But at the end they take the wrong decission. Monitor Audio is ahead in the material and techniques they use.
Most ’highend’ is still ’hifi’. This is based on the fact that these products can only build a 2-dimensional stage. Many companies use the word ’highend’ a lot. They are only using the word, at the end it has nothing to do with ’highend’.
Audio is all about properties. But audio is being chosen by trial and error. This means you create a system by connecting an amp, speaker, source and cables. You will listen to the endresult. But when I ask a simple question:
Can you tell me why the stage and sound is what we hear? The answer is: I don’t know. This is why trial and error always will be a very ineffective way of creating an audio system.
The Gold FX for sure!!
Which F.idiot says that the rear speakers are not important?
When you use amps which are able to create a 3-dimensional stage, the stage field will become so much bigger. With the Gold FX, you can even create 3-4 metres of extra depth. This makes watching movies a different and more intense experience.
Stereophile has the gutts to tell the truth and that the Pl-300 II is in technique and sound a better speaker than Wilson Audio.
I hope that people will learn to look further, because in my world people should get the best for their money. Based on sound and quality and not based on paid reviews.
Read the Stereophile review and you will get an idea why the Pl-300 II is better. And in which parts.
I would like to see more audio battles. But real and honest battles. Based on facts. This is the only way audio can get a boast. Better quality for consumers will be the only way to create more people to buy audio.
I would like to see more audio battles. But real and honest battles. Based on facts.I don't think "audio battles" resolve anything. Long-term listening is the best way to evaluate an audio component, imo. As for "facts," it's surely a fact that no audio component is absolutely perfect. So in the end, it's personal preference that matters most. Self-proclaimed audio experts and gurus prefer to think that they know best, but they can only know best for themselves.
I cannot aswer this question either. But Monitor Audio is in all their price ranges better in timing and accuracy than their competitors.
You need to understand and use this advantage. Here we see that many are not able to use it. We only sell and create a physical 3-dimensional image.
Monitor Audio give us the space and properties to create it. But when you are not able to understand and you are not aware how to create it.
Monitor Audio will be a 2-dimensional loudspeaker like many pf their competitors. In almost all shops and even at audio shows all the sets were presented in a 2-dimensional stage.
This says it all. This means that people who work in audio are not able to create a 3-dimensional stage.
When I ask to people who sell only 2-dimensional audio; does a band who playes music stand on the same line togheter?
Then you will understand that in real music playes in a room with width and depth. This is how it should be experienced when you listen to your music.
Stillpoints are stunning tools to create an even wider and deeper stage. Beside this the intimate and realistic focus of instruments and voices is stunning.
I'm new to audiogon but i read every single word you wrote on this forum because I also hear and think that monitor audio sound it's the best for the money . I started with bx2 and bxc with yamaha rxa2010 then i got rx6 in 2 months time, after 1 year i got gx300 and gx350 replaced the yamaha with denon 4520 and i got also a parasound a21 and 2 bk electric subs . The yamaha compered to denon had a very tin sound with almost no stage and separation. At the moment the dept of the stage it's 1m.
My brother after audition the gx300 in my house sold his 5.1 b&w cm series and got pl300 pl350 pl100 and Gibraltar g2 driving them with yamaha rxa2040 and also parasound a21
I'm looking at the moment to change the denon with onkyo tx-nr 5010
or i have to get the pr sc 5509 to get the best performance?
It's the parasound itself a 3d brand or 2d
What you think about the a21
I live in Dublin and we have locally 3 hifi shops, when i ask them about 3d sound the response it's simple in stereo doesn't exist, another shop said that i have to stay between the two speakers in the middle for 3d sound 😱😱😱😱😱
PLEASE HELP ME
@ddkt, those dealers are buffoons. "Three D" means: Height, Width and Depth. Clearly achievable with two speakers. Do not do business with them. You also need pace, rhythm, timing, atmosphere, emotion and scale. The suspension of belief that "you are there" or "they are here".
They are many great threads on here that cover many of these topics. I suggest that you search around and do some reading. Try to get out and visit an Audio Show or a major city that has some respectable audio salons. You need to hear a properly set up system! You do not need to spend a fortune either. Knowledge is power!!! Good Luck :>)
Dear @bo1972 : Reading to your posts here and else where I can think that you are totally convinced on what you spread over the net.
Now, from your point of view you are totally wrong due to your very high ignorance levels in music and audio ( the years of experience you posted and according your posts means really nothing for us but you. ) due that you start from false premises and I will try to explain about:
first MUSIC, as a part of world arts as: paint, poetry sculpture, etc., develops in an intrinsical way EMOTIONS/FEEELINGS per se where 1d-2D-3D-nD does not matters at all.
Power in that kind of art is inherent no maters if we are listening a live event or through a vintage walkman.
MUSIC brougth to each one of us ( in different ways. ) memories/feelings and every kind of emotions and that’s why is considered ART.
second, in audio we try to listen what is in the recording and this means what recording microphones pick it up.
Normally those microphones were located>/position in a near field of very few meters and almost never at usual seat positions of the people attends to a live event in a music hall or in a night club or what ever.
When any one of us attend to a live MUSIC event and be seated at nera field: 2-3 meters from the MUSIC source what we can detect is the direct sound with out that 3D you talk about.
If you seat at two meters from a horn/trumpet player you will know exactly what I’m talking about: exist no 3D you can't detect. Period.
Even in recordings by Three Blind Mice label the microphones are not at 2 meters but almost inside each instrument ! ! ! NO 3D can developed.
So and considering these true facts your Tru-Fi is a TRUE-FALLACY and nothing more.
Speak of 2D electronics/speakers is just a fallacy because that concept just des not exist. Exist only in you wrong FALLACies due your wrong premises you are using as foundation.
But you have several other terrible misunderstood about MUSIC and audio and I give you three examples with:
"" Diversity in sound (layering) is the most important part what gives us humans emotion during listening to music. "" false, part of your fallacy.
Please bear in mind that the midrange area is the most important frequency range of any loudspeaker. Because here it is where the magic happens of the music. """
plain wrong: MUSIC frame resides in bass and high frequency ranges. MUSIC belongs to those frequency ranges not mid-range one.
Just imaging piano instrument with out left-hand or the Niagara falls sound with out its marvelous bass range.
Bass range quality level is what determines the quality of the midrange levels and not the other way around. Is that frequency range the more important issue in any audio system: bass range.
Reading this Monitor Audio speaker review confirms your high unknowledge levels about when that speaker was choosed by you to promote it with your customers ( because I understand you are an audio seller. Sorry for your customers where you take advantage of their high unknowledge levels in MUSICaudio. ):
Well, in those speakers high touted here by you things are that the speakers croosover frequency from bass drivers to mid-range ones is: 460 hz ! and this per se is a terrible design mistake and the worst of it is that you support it and touted it ! ! ! and I know for sure you have no idea why you are absolutely wrong and I will explain it:
What does that means ?, well that those bass range drivers has to reproduce frequencies/harmonics from 22Hz to 460Hz. With that kind of frecuency range here exist a huge Intermodulation Distortion levels that put it’s " color " on the sound reproduction and far away from a decent sound reproduction.
You have to imagine that those woofer/drivers has to reproduce, at the same " time " example: a 30Hz frecuency along a 350Hz frecuency: here is where exist that IM that gives heavy distortions in what we hear ( there is no perfect driver: moving coil, electrostatic, ribbon, etc..
The speaker designers has to choose the best " trade offs ", but the distortions are there. ): less clarity, less resolution, less precision, less natural balance, less pitch, les, less, less......., and this is what we are really hearing: LESS MUSIC.
The long woofer excursions with a 25 hz frequency makes that a 450 hz frequency been out of precision/clarity because you can't stop suddenly the woofer excursions to handle higher frequencies. Exist other problem with all these and is that at the same time are developing the harmonics of those frequencies and came developed in wrong way degrading the overall system sound because those harmonics can even degrade de high frequency range!!!
If you read any manufacturer specifications on their speakers they never " write " the value of the IM or harmonic distortions, they tell us the frecuency range and how is flat on that range but never " talk " about distortions.
So how is that that MA seakers are so good ? ? ? ? only in your fallacy audio world.
Additional that passive speaker design is a ported one that means too higher bass range distortion levels. Higher than with sealed designs.
In the other side if you and your customers wants to listen TRUE-FI ( not your true-fa you gave them. ) the only way to achieve it is that the low bass range be handled by a pair of active/self-powered sealed design subwoofers integratedb in true stereo fashion where we have several true facts/advantages you can’t even dream in your wrong fallacies:
- better quality low bass ( you can have at least one more octave ) and mid bass ( quantity? : you choose it: volume/gain ) ). Now we can heard the " foundation " of the MUSIC ( and its harmonics ) and this single issue is stunning for the pleasure to hear any kind of music. Now, we are nearest to the " real MUSIC ", nothing less. Lower DISTORTIONS all over the frequency audio system range.
The first time you can hear the subwoofers right blended on your stereo home audio system: YOU NEVER COULD LIVE WITH OUT THEM AGAIN, ANY ONE CAN, period.
- An improvement in the soundstage reproduction in all parameters: deep, front/side location, wide of the stage, etc...
- the main speakers amplifiers works best ( less distortion, more headroom, less chance of clipping, less amplifier stress, etc...) with out to handle the frecuencies range that now are handle by the dedicated subwoofers amplifiers. This is important for an SS amplifier but for the tubes ones is a must.
- Now the low bass frecuencies are handle for a dedicated driver that was build with specifics characteristics to work in that frecuency range and this low bass driver is matched with an amplifier ( self powered subwoofers ) that was build with specifications that mates excatly what the low bass drivers needs about: frecuency response, output impedance, damping, power, etc..... You can’t ask for more!!!
- Not only the IM distortion goes down but the harmonic distortion of the low driver of your main speakers goes down too, Btw, the whole harmonic distortion goes down, because ( in the case of my Velodyne’s less than 0.5%: with’s yours? ) ) the harmonic distortion of a well self powered designed subwoofer is usually " very low ". This means ( again ) less coloration: MORE MUSIC.
Now, that ligths-on all the frequency ranges are in harmony and MUSIC now has its true meaning and shines as ever before with power and a rythmum that's hard to explain it: we have to live it, to experienced.
Your fallacy is a mess nigthmare. No passive speakers can’t do it and does not matters with whcih " 3D " amps you are mating it. Got it?
But things does not end there because you choosed the PL500 design that comes between other not so good atributes with a manufacturer spec that says that the frequency response deviation level is +,- 6db, this means a swing of 12 db ! ! ! that's " almost flat ". Sorry but you are totally wrong.
As everyone of us you are part of the corrupted AHEE unfortunatelly you belongs to the " dark " side.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
Hahahahahahaha...Velodyne subwoofer, then I will not even take you serious. I have proven to Velodyne owners that the timing is not that good at all.
You have totally no idea what I really mean. I read some of your reactions, they are fully useless. I won’t take anything you say seriously.
I have proven to many people who also work for a long time in the audio industry that what we created goes so much further than other systems in natural sound and most of all in emotion.
Based on the fact that you never listened to any of my systems you have no idea at all.
I listend to many Velodyne subs, it was very easy to explain why it was not in phase and why it was too slow.
Based on tha fact that when you switch it on instrument and voices became lager in dimension. This is what happens when a subwoofer it too slow.
I have proved to many different people in audio that stealth low freq. is superior in timing and accuracy than any other way of using a subwoofer.
many people with very expensive ’highnd’ systems calles it; reference low freq. or the best realistsic low freq. they ever auditioned.
When you ar so stuppid to buy a Velodyne (slow) subwoofer you must own slow speaker s as well.
Which speakers, amp, source and cable do you own?
the way you placed your Velodyne subwoofers proofs that you don’t understand how a subwoofer works and needs to be put the right way.
I sold Tannoy for many years. The stage DNA proofs to be 2-dimensional. So you paid a lot of money for 2-dimensional speakers.
For example at shows the Tannoy demoes proof to create less than 1 metre of depth. This has nothing to do with highend audio.
In real a sound stage will never be less than 1 metre. This is totally unrealistic. Beside that the Tannoy speakers own their own kind of sound. This is not the most natural and realistic sound.
Your system proofs not to take any of your words serious!!
Velodyne uses their own EQ system. It is able to solve most acoustic issues but.............
it still does not see your loudspeakers. That is why it is not in phase like we can create with stealth low freq.
It is very easy to demo why it is limited. I have done this often also with Velodyne owners.
Listen between subwoofers on/off.
You will hear that voices and instruments do not keep the same shape and size. Beside that the energie of instruments does not stand free in space.
We created recently an even higher level in stealth low freq. Now we can demo that the energy of the low freq fully stand free in space. And that the energy is even in depth and height.
Both for stereo and surround this sets new stadards in accuracy. Soon we will proof it. Then you can listen to it yourself and judge........