Sibilance issues with vinyl rig


howdy
I've recently gotten into vinyl, investing quite heavily, and coming away unimpressed and frustrated.
the problem is sibilance...I find some albums almost unbearable, and if not unbearable, not terribly pleasant to listen to. On other albums, there is a sibilant 'cast' - even surface noise, and tick and pops have a hollow, pitched up characteristic to them that is unlike I've experienced listening to other systems. When people say 'vinyl sounds way better than cd's', I wonder what the hell they're talking about, or what it is that I'm doing wrong.
I should list out my system quickly just in case there's some familiarity within the membership and perhaps a quick fix, and also to see where I'm at in this hobby:
Rega Saturn cd player
Modwright swl9.0se pre amp
Cary audio slm 70 mono blocks
Totem model 1's
totem thunder sub
running springs haley power conditioning
harmonic tech cabling throughout
vinyl rig:
vpi scoutmaster with jmw-9 signature tonearm and single flywheel motor upgrade and vpi sds
benz micro ace low output mc cartridge
sim audio lp5.3 phono stage
harmonic tech magic cables (used) between turntable and phono stage, and between the phono stage and Modwright pre (new)...I've noted this as the magic cables are newer than what's in the rest of the system.
The lp5.3 phono stage is used, I'm the third owner
The cartridge was new....the turntable, cartridge and magic cables to the phono stage have about 100-150 hours on them now.
I'm quite happy with the cd playback...the saturn was the best under $5000 player I'd auditioned, save for one, and that is in the company of krell, copland, meridian, etc...so in general the system as a whole performs rather well...and no sibilance issues with cd playback.
I set up the turntable myself, following Michael Fremer's dvd in which he demo'd the setup of a scoutmaster. I do have a nice digital stylus gauge, and have purchased the soundsmith counterintuitive to assist with the difficulty of setting the tracking force/azimuth on this tonearm. I can't say I'm an expert at setup, but in listening there are no other issues (left/right balance, tracking erors, etc), so I figure I'm 90% there.
I've tried every resistive setting on the lp5.3. I've tried lowering the output, but I already need to set the volume at 4-5 out of 10 to get where the volume is equal to what 3 out of 10 provides using cd playback, and it didn't solve my problem anyway (thought the sibilance might be caused overloading the rest of the signal path..btw, the benz has an output of .4mv). I fiddled with vta, and found little if any difference. I meticulously clean my records (most of which are brand new) before playing, put them in rice paper sleeves, and use the requisite record and stylus cleaning brushes...in other words, I'm meticulous and thorough. I listen to a huge variety of music, and have extreme familiarity with some (admittedly not all) of the albums - I know how they should sound...ironically, it's the ones I'm familiar with that bother me the most. I do assume the new components should be broken in by now, and either way, there has been little or no change since the initial setting up.
I've invested a chunk of money time and effort, and expected the vinyl rig to sound at least as good as the cd, but I'm disappointed....would really appreciate any input...help!
josephwol

Showing 5 responses by robob

"jmw-9 signature tonearm"

See my thread "Kleos Sibilance" . I suspect your cartridge is not compatible with the 9 Sig. Maybe somebody can do the math for us. VPI does have headshell weights you might be able to get them to send you. As mentioned in my thread, my Shelter 501 II works pretty good with the VPI headshell weight, my Kleos wants more weight and even then is more sibilant than the Shelter. Hopefully my Sota Star/SME 309 will be here this week.

Good Luck,
Robert
PS: Would be interested if you get better results with the Mint LP.

"Soundsmith/VPI Zephyr"

Goatwuss speak wisely.

Notice the over 10 gram weight of the Zephyr. Few, if any, moving coils are that heavy. In fact, almost no other cartridge is that heavy. Unacceptable design flaw on HW's part IMHO. And something we should have been told about. As I mentioned in my Kleos Sibilance thread, I had a VPI tech tell me they like carts that are 11 grams!!

I was tempted to try the upgrade to the 10.5 arm which probably does work better with modern carts. Supposed the Classic can handle modern carts and it has a version of the 10.5.

Good luck,
Robert
"That's baloney."

Glad to see you are mellowing.

"There are 8 Koetsus and 3 Dynavectors that weigh 11 grams or more.

The Zu/Denon weighs 14 grams."

I sit corrected. None of those are on my wish list so I did not notice. Most of the good ones I am interested in are much lighter.

Thanks for setting me straight,
Robert
"I've discussed this issue not only this time around, but before with others, as to why there seems to be no clear cut answer as to why sibilance problems are noted, and have now all of a sudden seem to be commonplace with a JMW Arm.

I don't recall ever reading such in the past, and the JMW seemed always praised as a very good Arm. So what changed?"

One of the things I haven't seen mentioned is that there are more of them. The VPI's are quite popular. Probably 1st or 2nd selling brand. Secondly, more of us are trying cartridges that are not a good match for the arm.

BTW, as I mentioned in my Kleos thread, increasing the VTF will help in some cases. In my case, J. Carr is picky about the VTF on the Kleos so more force is not an option.

I would have to agree with Audiofeil and say get rid of the 9 sig. Too bad Fremer and HP, etc. are not warning folks.

Y'all be cool:-)

"The moving magnet is probably the way to go."

It is not MM/MI vs MC. It is weight and compliance that are the issues. And yes, some of us are more sensitive to sibilance. I also hear presence peaks(maybe not as much as when younger) that others strain to hear.

BTW, in my thread someone mentioned LP playback more susceptible to sibilance than CD. I have found the opposite to be true. Particularly with low density/bit rate digital such as CD I hear more sibilance than a properly tracking LP system. My V15 Vmxr is not sibilant in a cheapie Project 2.1. This is not limited to music, I am watching twit.tv and since they went to a digital mixer their output is often terribly sibilant.

Y'all be cool,
Robert