Should people who can't solder, build or test their speakers be considered audiophiles?

  So, if you bought that Porsche but can only drive it and not fix it do you really understand and appreciate what it is? I say no. The guy who can get in there and make it better, faster or prettier with his own hands has a superior ability to understand the final result and can appreciate what he has from a knowledge base and not just a look at what I bought base. I mean sure you can appreciate that car when you drive it but if all you do is take it back to the dealership for maintenance and repairs you just like the shape with no real understanding of what makes it the mechanical marvel it is.
  I find that is true with the audio world too. There are those who spend a ton of money on things and then spend a lot of time seeking peer approval and assurance their purchase was the right one and that people are suitably impressed. Of course those who are most impressed are those who also do not design, build, test or experiment.

  I propose that an audiophile must have more than a superficial knowledge about what he listens to and must technically understand what he is listening to. He knows why things work and what his end goal is and often makes his own components to achieve this. He knows how to use design software to make speakers that you can't buy and analyze the room they are in and set up the amplification with digital crossovers and DSP. He can take a plain jane system and tweak it and balance it to best suit the room it is in. He can make it sound far better than the guy who constantly buys new components based on his superficial knowledge who does not understand why what he keeps buying in vain never quite gets there.

  A true audiophile can define his goal and with hands on ability achieve what a mere buyer of shiny parts never will. So out comes the Diana Krall music and the buyer says see how good my system is? The audiophile says I have taken a great voice and played it through a system where all was matched and tweaked or even purposely built and sits right down next to Diana as she sings. The buyer wants prestigious signature sound and the audiophile will work to achieve an end result that is faithful true to life audio as though you were in the room with Diana as she sings. The true audiophile wants true to life and not tonally pure according to someones artificial standard.

 So are you a buyer or an audiophile and what do you think should make a person an audiophile?
mike lavigne making comments about dumpser fires
-breaths in deep-

@mahlman —

Whether I was serious with my now deleted message dissing sarcasm? You bet; I find your OP to stand on its own and read it sans sarcasm. Indeed it’ all the more effective this way clearly expressing your POW while asking others about their stance.

>>>>>Is there going to be an exchange of POWs? 😳
" OP: "I came back to see just how much this thread has degraded" .... It began at the bottom of the barrel! "
Well actually if you go back and read you will see there are quotation marks around that phrase. Nonoise is the author of that cogent phrase. I, as the OP, think it is all top drawer and could not ask for better theater of the absurd. Thanks for your contribution.
" >>>>>Is there going to be an exchange of POWs? 😳 "
   YES, Pearls Of Wisdom are being freely exchanged.
mahlman, I just now perused the thread (as I don't solder) to find that statement. Either way, it is an enjoyable thread. Perhaps not quite top drawer, but underwear drawer. 😷

I had no idea it would grow legs like this and I certainly have enjoyed it.
I like listening to my music the albums I bought a few to CDs I bought. If I was an audio-fool I wouldn't have time to listen to music or work or eat.
 Why can't we all just put a nice album on relax have an adult beverage if you'd like, listen to music and disregard fools like started this article.
To me it’s sad if your only intention for posting what you did was for the value of the reactions. Must still be stuck at home with nothing to do, no new tv programming and running out of constructive activities 
Did I see a TROLL... What is a troll, is it anything like a Booger eatin’ spaz? It takes a troll to know a troll. DON’T CALL NAMES.....

Don’t be rude.... Manners pay that don’t cost....

Regards..Maybe.... Kinda....sorta... No, I take it back, no regards, your rude...

Anyways, it's time to feed the chickens...

@geoffkait —

>>>>>Is there going to be an exchange of POWs? 😳

Oops, now that doesn’t sound right - make that POV 😬
       Let's extrapolate. 
       If I have a brain and use it but can't perform brain surgery, am I still worthy of utilizing it in an obviously satirical and derisive manner to articulate to the OP just how snobbish, inane, pretentious, nonsensical and pathetic his thread premise actually is?  Really, am I allowed?  If not, who do I need to request permission from?  I need to know.

Just curious,
As the OP in question you have my blessing to satire at my expense. I look forward to it and regard satire as an art form that can be immensely entertaining.
  Whether you are worthy depends on if you can do so with taste and wit and you may begin at any time.
  Can I suggest a topic since you seem to be lacking one? How about "Can Sarcastic People Be Audiophiles"?
I think that sarcasm tough is a bit too much of a more subtle gesture called "irony"....Like too much "salt" in the soup.... We must practice irony and spare the sarcasm....

I dont mean it to be a critic of your thread at all.... I enjoy reading trough the psyche of each poster.... 

It is just my grain of "salt"....
"I got blisters on my fingers" - DIY Solderer
Threads like this <sigh>.  The worst thing about the internet is it gives a tool to the trollers.  A perfectly decent forum gets cluttered up with yet another idiotic thread.
" I dont mean it to be a critic of your thread at all.... I enjoy reading trough the psyche of each poster....   "
  I never in my wildest dreams anticipated the responses and they have been illuminating and amusing and sad all at the same time.
" To me it’s sad if your only intention for posting what you did was for the value of the reactions. Must still be stuck at home with nothing to do, no new tv programming and running out of constructive activities "
  Initially it was as mentioned earlier in the thread a sarcastic response to a thread seriously offered for consideration on Audiogon. It was asking if a true audiophile had to have a turn table and reel to reel.  And no, no more bored or running out of constructive things to do than those who reply here.
Three types of responses here: #1 Sincere, honest, and meaningfully helpful. How much can be said? #2 Intendingly humorous by knuckleheads like me. #3 complaints of the obvious. #1 is probably played-out. #3 respondces give #2 responses reason to continue. 
One of the symptoms of  covid 19 is on display.  
Really, am I allowed? If not, who do I need to request permission from? I need to know. 

You can ask me... Yes you have permission. Now go and have a good time. But be nice....;-)


Yesterday morning, I went to the Indiana Audiophile Society’s Indianapolis office to apply to become an official member. To earn official membership and the coveted Official Indiana Audiophile Member credentials that are bestowed, the process requires each applicant to take their very demanding Audiophile Entrance Exam. Membership is only granted to those paying the $5,000 entrance fee and answering the Official Entrance Exam’s 100 true-false questions with complete and total accuracy, a single incorrect answer results in permanent membership disqualification and forfeiture of the entrance fee.
If the entrance fee is paid and all 100 entrance exam questions are answered 100% correctly, Official Indiana Audiophile membership status and credentials are bestowed upon the applicant.
About an hour later, as I handed my completed exam back to the office clerk, she must have noticed my concerned manner because she stated: "Relax Mr. noble100, I probably shouldn’t be telling you this but the whole exam is actually based on whether question #2 is answered correctly or not, all the other questions are superfluous, not even checked and just there for appearances."
I quickly looked down and reread question #2 on the exam, along with my answer, before handing it over to the clerk. Question #2 asked:
"True or false, People who can't solder, build or test their speakers are not considered to be audiophiles?"

There it is my friends, Irony in Action!

Is this a true story or a made up story?
Consider this a fable with a moral to the story.

What word best describes my feelings about my performance on the exam?

How did I answer question #2?
Those who paid close attention understand this point is moot.

I don’t wish to stifle further debate and discussion, however, so please carry on.


One of the symptoms of covid 19 is on display.

>>>>One can’t help wondering if some symptoms of Covid-19 are loss of the sense of taste and the sense of smell is loss of hearing acuity another symptom. You know, you can‘t tell the difference between tape and digital any more. 😳
Post removed 
Post removed 
geoff display's the perfect example of loss.
I saw that, anachronism. Bad anachronism, bad! You have stooped to copy glubson now? 
Post removed 
Cursing can be an effective emotional release, especially for anger and frustration  American Psychiatric Association
Post removed 
Why do people demean others to feel better about themselves?
Because it makes them feel better, pea brain. 🤗 Everything’s topsy turvy. Me topsy, you turvy. 😀
You must be on top of the world, then! 🚢 👍
Did you just take a smart pill? 
Post removed 
Post removed 
Post removed 
Post removed 
I'm sure there are plenty people  here who never solder anything in there life or even hammered a nail without bending it.But you can still be an audiophile  ,so don't  worry .lol.....
All these posts getting deleted, one a my recent ones as well with one of these reasons given for the deletion:

  • It looked like spam
  • It was abusive towards another member
  • It depicts explicit and/or violent content
  • It contains profanity

I'm guessing no. 2 and 4 read from above. My post contained the word 'crap' written once - I wonder if that qualifies as proper grounds for deletion? Other than that I provided my perspective in a sought considered manner, making me think: 

I doubt the @admins are all over this place constantly doing their ninja thing all on their own turning "unfortunate" posts into digital smoke; there's this option called 'Report this' that when used affects their decision making, and something tells me this option is used in a liberal fashion by some posters simply because they find certain posts by others to rub them the wrong way or otherwise make them feel offended, as if being in honest disagreement sanctions censorship against the other part. Isn't there enough vileness, bashing and empty calories going on already that evades the admins?

Let the hypocrisy continue..
     Exactly, limomangus.  The only reason I know how to solder is because I had to be proficient to pass a H S electronics course.  I'm not really proud of this skill, haven't used it since that class and, hopefully, I won't have a need to the rest of this life.
  I respect the gear designers, admire the quality, precision and the looks of the a/v gear but I love to use it for music and HT more than anything else.  I'm certain there are no prerequisites or qualifications for being an a/v enthusiast, videophile or audiophile beyond those mentioned and I don't believe there should be.  My goals are relaxation and enjoyment, not pretentions, restrictions, snobbery and exclusivity. 
     It seems to me that mahlman would benefit from some chillaxing.

I soldered some MIL SPEC 12AX7 WAs directly to their tube sockets. I soldered a large number of capacitor banks and power cords to make DIY AC line filter for unused wall outlets. I also completely re-wired a Dynaco PAS-3 preamp with silver wire.
I have wound inductors, soldered crossovers, upgraded components in amplifiers, built many many cables, and speakers.... However, before any of that, and before my Instrumentation and electronics degree, I was already an audiophile.

I consider myself an audiophile because I like to listen to music on a better than basic resolving audio system.

@geoffkait  so how'd it sound after the silver wire?
I say the OP isn’t a real audiophile because He doesn’t record his own music tracks. How can you judge fidelity of playback when you have no idea what the original event sounded like?

And if someone is into LP’s but don’t cut their own vinyl, what kind of enthusiast is that?

No lathe? Then no love... is my saying.

" Dumbing-down work’s for you? No....., you were born that way. "
What you need is geoffkait’s special ESP tweak. You send him money and he sends you back ESP. I think it has to do with the flying saucers he also sells. You can be serene and Roswell all at the same time.
I can't believe how long this has gone on.  I think this thread proves that one of the main requirements to be an audiophile is the ability to obsess over what obviously doesn't matter.  I'm gonna go buy an Audioquest dragon hc power cable to demonstrate my chops.
" can't believe how long this has gone on. I think this thread proves that one of the main requirements to be an audiophile is the ability to obsess over what obviously doesn't matter. I'm gonna go buy an Audioquest dragon hc power cable to demonstrate my chops. "
  It is pretty amazing. I was thinking of taking a picture of my 12g zip cord speaker wires haphazardly laying on the floor and posting it here so we could all hear the gasps of dismay, outrage and pious incredulity.
It should come as no surprise that audio, like other hobbies, has a bottom. 🍑
What along opinion.  My response, Really?  Well I guess everyone has a right to tell it like they see it.  That being said, being technical about the innards of electronics in audio has absolutely nothing to do with enjoying the music.  I have an innuos mini mk II I am trying to get working on my system.  It is recognized by my LAN but.....Orange sweeze is not connecting.  While checking out the sound of innuos at the dealer using two huge mono block parasound amps, some exotic DAC running on two $20,000 large speaker towers.  Did I need to take the lid off of each to appreciate the sound? No!  Did I need to remove speaker components? No!  The enjoyment and collection of music is an audiophile.  And my 45 year old Crown amps out spec it all for THD, IM distortion, S/N  ratio Just specs.  Thats all. 
You do not need to be an audiophile to love and enjoy the hobby, and you do not have to be rich to have a great sounding system. In my case streaming will allow my poor mans budget the luxury of picking, organising 100s of tracks at $20  / month. I do not need an audiophile collection of  LPs,  CDs or tens of thousands in electronics to enjoy it. I do not need to inspect the soldier joints either.