Should I keep the Turntable or sell it?

@chakster can you provide some details as to why I should do that? Also what cart would you recommend? 

With all due respect, saying because it’s a “Japanese direct drive” as a reason to sell the Cambridge Audio Alva, which IS direct drive isn’t an actual reason, that’s just “legacy hype”. Since Cambridge Audio has openly discussed partnerships with other manufacturers, this Direct Drive is probably made by the same plants that build for Technics. And since I know for sure the tonearm is a high end Rega, it seems the Alva is best of both worlds. But is a Rega alone the better option, because they have built their turntable themselves with all parts and components taken into consideration?

I haven’t read anything about Technics yet to make me think their technology is superior to any other midrange table, so why would I get rid of a direct drive table to buy another direct drive. What about Technics tables are better than other components, removing the drive from the equation?

Anyone have an options on Rega vs Clearaudio, or other non-Technics tables?

Anyone have an opinion on TT to speaker via aptX Bluetooth? I’m doing some research, but having spent a few decades in marketing, I know most of what I read is hype.

thanks for your responses!

 @chakster I forgot to mention, I found out the cart is an Audio-Technica, but not sure how to identify which one it is. 

@gregdude  hmmm... talk to me more about line-level tube stages. Not something I have explored yet, and might solve my issue. What models would you recommend I take a look at. The less expensive tube pre-amp I liked the sound of is a Yaquin MS-23B. When paired with my Pro-Ject and Ortofon Blue, the sound quality and warmth was so much better than the solid state phono preamps I was testing in the same price range.

@lewm
I’ve only listened to the P3 once at a dinner party a couple years ago, and I remember really liking it, but it wasn’t in the budget at the time. Maybe it was the wine, but his system sounded very warm. He had Klipsch bookshelf speakers (RP-600 maybe?) on stands, and a solid state phono pre and a nicer amp (no idea models). But I have also been eyeing the Marantz TT-15S1 with the clearaudio virtuoso MM cart, and the Music Hall 7.3 with Ortofon Bronze.

 @chakster 
I appreciate the detailed info on the Technics, although some of your reply was a bit off putting. I know there is a large Technics fanboy club here, so I won’t get into it with you on the turntable. I’ve listened a few times to a high end Technics table at a friend’s father’s house who talked my ear off about it and his Martin Logans. In his opinion, owning anything other than those brands wasn’t good quality. I can’t recall his other components. Luckily we have similar taste in music, but definitely not the same budget. 

No offense, but whenever someone has such a high loyalty for one company and downplays all other brands and even downplays huge advances in technologies to be trivial, I have to take the advice with a big grain of salt. And obviously I’m asking the community to get ideas, so it’s hard to digest someone cramming a single brand down your throat when clearly there are many options to consider. But I greatly appreciate the info, and will read up on Technics.

@stereo5 
Thanks for the details on the P3 as I will take that into consideration.

@mulveling 
the SOTA looks impressive... but way out of my budget for a few years.

@mulveling I just started playing with tubes, and agree, they are quite fun and I love the warmth. Adding a cheap tube phone and an Ortofon Blue to my Pro-Ject made the The Doors vinyl come alive! But I’ve read they color the sound quite a bit compared to solid state. Audio purists and analog purists seem to battle on this topic a lot. It seems everyone has very strong opinions about how they enjoy music and the best way others should enjoy music as well. 😊

The Alva TT has no phono bypass, so I can’t do tubes with it.

@clearthink condescending comments, and especially those intended to derogate a protected class, should not be used. I am sure the moderators and Audiogon attorneys would agree with that statement. If you feel it's okay to post racist, sexist, ageist, or any other form of disrespectful language, do it on your own thread. 

@noromance apparently, you think it’s completely acceptable to be condescending, even going so far as being discriminated against by age (even though he was wrong about my age). How would you like basically being told “don’t question me, I’m older, just buy the thing I told you.” Age doesn’t always bring wisdom, and often brings resistance to change.

I asked for clarification, and was talked down to. Other members were very capable of providing helpful advice without condescending language and judgement, and I don’t see why I should expect anything else from a community. Instead, I’m told anything other than direct drive is crap, which is just silly to state, considering the hundreds of high quality belt drive turntables the industry has produced. By dismissing ALL OTHER turntable manufacturers in the industry (because Technics is the only “REAL direct drive”) I think it limits your credibility on turntables to just Technics.

I thanked him for his detailed response, even with the extremely condescending content, and moved on to others that were providing alternatives.

My comments about tubes adding color and warmth is based on many other audiophiles stating just that. If you disagree with the statement, then take it up with the thousands of ppl on audio forums that say tubes are better than solid state, because they add to the experience. If you think they sound the same as solid state, well then good for your ears.


To the rest of the members providing opinions and information with condescension, I appreciate your comments. I will continue to look into alternatives to Rega that match what I might be able to sell the Alva for, and I will continue to listening to it and see if it grows on me. It is interesting though that I was wowed by a cheap $200 upgrade of the Ortofon Red to Blue, and was hoping the Alva, being a $1700 table, would wow me that much more. 

@clearthink I certainly did. Your comments are not constructive nor related to the thread, and go against the guidelines as posted.

Good day, sir.

@noromance slow your roll, and read the pronouns. I wouldn’t have use to word “he” when talking to you (using the @ mention). You didn’t mention age, chakster did, but your certainly were condescending. Also, fanboy was in reference to Technics, not tubes. Again, I made multiple references to Technics and direct drive (not tubes) when talking about a fanboy and the “real” technology I should be using. You might need to start reading more critically before you post, because I’ve never said anything negative about any technology or preference. I just don’t like when ppl loyal to a single brand think that option is the ONLY choice I should consider in my price point, and even go on to say an entire technology (belt drive) is crap. This is what chakster did. You just happen to be the one trying to call me out for some reason for not putting full trust in a Technics fanboy. I’m critical of anyone stating there is only one way something should be done, and I believe everyone should be skeptical of an unwavering POV. Thanks for your contributions. The information about Technics was noted and appreciated, but comments like “This is bizarre” and “OP knows best” were rude and unnecessary. It seems many others were very capable of reading my OP and follow-up comments, and providing helpful advice without condescending remarks. I’d suggest you and chakster follow their example.

Good Day, sir. 🎩

@chakster My age comment still stands, and you only best me by a year. Any comment that ends with "before you were born" is condescending and rude, implying the person on the receiving end of the comment is too young to know better. Your opinion of the phrase may differ, but feel free to argue your point with a linguist, not me. Also, I believe your opinion of high quality is very different than many other audiophiles and a large handful of leading manufacturers. That is fine, we all have a person preference. Maybe your understanding of the belt drive technology, and why it is used on the most advanced tables in the world, is lacking and you should do some research on it. You do seem to have quite a bit of knowledge about direct drive, but since you say Technics is the only "REAL direct drive", maybe you should do more research on other companies in the industry, and the advances they have also been making for decades. Lastly, you also need to read comments on these boards more critically, as you would've learned that I have indeed heard a Technics a few times, and am not blindly dismissing the brand nor the technology. 

Again, thanks for the info on Technics, but keep the "color commentary" to a minimum on my thread or just refrain from commenting. Thanks.

@lewm I plan on listening to the Alva TT a bit longer, but still keep my listings up. With it being so new (released in April 2019), there aren't too many people looking for it just yet, so it might take a while to sell. 

@uberwaltz totally tubular.

@chakster again, thanks for the on topic information about Technics and direct drive. I will read all about it when I find some time to kill. Others don’t share your point of view on direct drive being the best technology, including (almost) all other high end turntable manufacturers. 

I haven’t completely formed my opinion on that just yet, but luckily I have in my possession a $1700 direct drive turntable made by a company that has also been around creating high end audio components for half a century. 

You are completely lacking in experience and knowledge of the Alva, so maybe before spouting off about a product you have absolutely no experience with, give it a listen. 

I will continue listening and also learn from others on these boards who are capable of constructive communication, without such bias towards a single brand. 👍


@clearthink 🤫🤭👍

@clearfthink 👍✌️👋

@clearthink interesting... you state you won’t be told what to do, right after you tell me exactly what I can do.

@clearthink follow your own logic then... and since you can’t seem to keep on topic, please follow the rules:

• You will not post information that is malicious, false or inaccurate.
• You will not post content that is sexually explicit.
• You will not post content that is abusive or defames another member of The Service.

https://forum.audiogon.com/pages/guidelines

Ageist comments are abusive, along with all other comments that derogate a protected class. There are 7, look them up.

@johntoye Agreed. If I wasn’t the OP, I would’ve unsubscribed from the thread long ago. At least I am getting a variety of turntables to research, and helping information from most members on here.

@soundermn yes and no. I’m actually doing just as you said in my comparison. The “extra stuff” that other turntables won’t have, such as a DAC, Bluetooth, and Phono Preamp, I would estimate to be valued around $500 retail because they are separate components with added costs, etc. That leaves the table and cart at $1200ish in value. The build quality of the table and tonearm are fantastic, and as stated by others, built like a tank (24lbs), and has a very stylish finish to it. So I believe I would be safe to compare it to a Rega P3 with Elys or Exact cart, because I’ve seen those on sale for about $1100 and $1400 respectively. And yes, I would have to sell both tables to get about $1000 - $1200 in trade value at a local store or sell them both for maybe an additional $300. 

The stars might be aligning though for a Rega, because I just received an email about a Rega event happening this week at a local shop, and a 10% off a new model with my trade. I might not be able to get the Exact cart though.

@yogiboy another member posted about the SOTA... they look beautiful, and I’m sure with the Ortofon Blue it would sound really good. Upgrade to a Bronze or Black, and I’m sure it would sound as amazing as it looks. It’s just about $500-$1000 out of my current budget. 

Fun question for you... if you had to pick one thing on a turntable that is the most important, would you say it was the cart? Assuming you aren’t trying to put a twin turbo on a Toyota Tercel, would a mid-level table like a Music Hall 5.3 do well with an Ortofon Black for example?

@best-groove what budget would you say is the minimum for a table/cart to not be “clubbin with Mamma” in your opinion?

@best-groove I think I’m following... maybe. No, those components don’t need to be located in a system at all. It seems what Cambridge Audio is predicating is that the future of hi-fi analog is digital, or more than there is a larger market for those wanting all-in-one systems that are mid-range in quality from a hi-fi perspective.

if I had the money, sure I’d just buy all separate components and place them far away from the table as possible. I would also probably buy different components though for analog and digital and have two separate systems. Not in my budget though, unfortunately.

@soundermn I definitely am considering a Marantz TT-15S1 because of the Clearaudio Virtuoso cat. I have heard really good things about both, but not actually listened either. My plan originally was to sell both the Alva and the Pro-Ject, which ideally would give me enough for a $1500 table with cart.

@mulveling The Clearaudio Concept would be ideal, but it starts at $1600 and the Marantz using a higher end cart. This is the main reason for the "most important part" question about a table. It seems the cart option is generally what pushes the table price much higher. Looking at those two tables and what they come with standard, it seems the Marants with a $950 Clearaudio Virtuoso MM cart ($1499 total) is a much better deal than a Clearaudio Concept with only the $250 Concept MM ($1600 total). With these two models in mind, would you say the Concept with the Concept MM cart is better than the Marantz with Virtuoso MM? It would seem that two carts made by the same company, but one is $700 more, would sound much better musically, so the cart would have a much greater impact on listening experience. That would be my hypothesis, but again, I haven’t listened to either tables yet.

@best-groove

...it’s okay to get them but not inside a turntable for problems that could trigger.

Wait, I am not following then. If you are saying having a DAC, Bluetooth, Phono Stage (it doesn’t have USB, btw) all in a system, then what is the difference if they are insulated inside of the TT VS sitting beside the TT? Assuming they are good quality (CA has made great products for 50 years), why would it matter if they are inside the unit? Are you talking about RFI, because unless I put them in another room, there will still be interference, and I trust a Cambridge Audio engineer to build and place these components within a system, than I would ME placing them in various parts of a room. Maybe I just don’t understand your POV, though.

(Rant about audiophilia coming)
One thing that I find fascinating, is that audiophiles hate the idea of multiple components inside a singularly engineer product, and think they can always "al a carte" their own systems better then a company doing this stuff for 50 years. KEF LS50 Wireless speakers are another example... many audiophiles that I have conversed with hate the idea of not being able to match their DAC and amp with their passive speakers, and I understand personal preference, but if a technology that is so great and award winning (KEF LS50) why not trust the same engineers to pair the right DAC and amp? I feel like ego tends to get in the way of things sometimes, and non-experts believe they know better than the folks they pay huge sums of money to for the individual components.
(Thanks for the therapy)

So my personal hypothesis is... A company who has been in the business for decades and who partners with other companies who deliver great components, is very likely to be capable of engineering and compiling a turntable, arm, and cart (package) that is specifically engineered to sound great together. Isn’t this exactly what Apple did and continues to do very successfully with the iPhone? It is an all in one solution, built to be completely integrated and services it’s own ecosystem of applications. Luckily and hopefully, I will have years to test this hypothesis and see if I can prove it null.

I appreciate the information everyone!

@mijostyn I recently read some place that Rega does not recommend using Ortofon Bronze or Black on their tonearms, and I can't recall why. Any ideas why?

@noromance so setting the vertical alignment of the stylus is more "difficult" on a Rega, is what you are saying? 

@boofer lol... yes, it was quite the train wreck at first, but many folks on here offered great ideas and information. I’ve decided to try and trade in my two units for either a Marantz TT-15S1 or a Rega P3 with Exact cart. The Music Hall 7.3 came in third place for my preferences. I feel like there has been a number of comparisons on the web with these two units, and it comes down to which audio dealer will make me the best trade offer for one of those tables.

In the end, I know I will be happy with either of those two tables. 

But of those two options, which one would you personally go with?

@russmaleartist  I completely disagree with every single thing you said.  Except for the ellipsis part... I agree with ellipsis.

@robelvick direct drive is an inferior technology. 

Wait for it..... 

@flynnrd You clearly have not read thru this thread, or you would know I am certainly not a "shill" for Cambridge Audio or the dealer. Maybe a shill for Rega or Marantz, but certainly not the product for which I won in the contest. I have also stated in this thread that I have the Alva listed to sell on the Audiogon marketplace, and on reverb, which seems to do the opposite of promoting a positive image about a product. It is a great turntable, but just not what I am looking for with my current setup. Also, think about the people on this forum... do you really believe they would be swayed to gain interest and purchase a product from simply reading a forum post about selling the dang product?? SMH.

@stevencason I am not trying to do a comparison of tables, because I don’t plan on using a specific cart. Because these mid-level tables generally are sold as a specific "package", that is what I am inquiring about, the entire package. Some people here and on other forums have owned or at least listened to both the Rega P3 with Exact and the Marantz TT-15S1 and can provide helpful details about their listening experience. Waiting and listening is an option that I have explored, but in the end, I know I want a different listening experience that doesn’t require component workarounds. Tubes are a different story though. Also, the point of selling or trading the two tables is so that I am NOT shelling out a ton of cash.

@davidclarke I will take a look on ebay.

@robert53 I don’t mind the expense of buying tubes over time, because that is like buying and collecting nice bottles of wine. You can experiment and play with tube rolling, so I have learned. And the price of tubes seems to be much cheaper than swapping/upgrading carts, from what I can tell. And yeah, when I feel like splurging, I might look into the tubes from the 50’s and 60’s. Gotta roll these tables first. :)

@lewm  

Cartridges mate with tonearms, not with turntables.

yeah, I don't think anyone is debating that fact, but turntables under $2K come with a choice of cart, not a choice of tonearm. Also, everyone knows you can tinker, tune, and toy with a turntable as much as you like, but your options while purchasing a sub- $2K are limited to what the manufacturer/dealer has packaged up and is selling as product. To keep with the car analogy, I can certainly buy an Audi and mod the hell out of it with turbochargers, ECU, and performance exhaust. Or I can just buy an BMW M3 that was built specifically for a certain look, feel, and function that the engineers have been working on for decades and have packaged up for me to drive and experience. They are experts in that "black art" and I trust they know what they are doing. The cost of both cars is somewhat irrelevant in this analogy, assuming they are both within reason. The point I am making is that at the $1500 price point, I have a number of options to choose from that initially come as a package, specifically "tuned" to sound the way the engineers intended. When I have the budget and time to explore more of the black arts, I might start mixing and matching.

My questions related to cartridge/table are more akin to asking if a twin turbo engine(faster engine) in an Audi A5S provides a better driving experience than a single turbo engine in a BMW 540i(more refined car). This is basically the question when comparing a Marantz TT-15S1 with Virtuoso cartridge to a Clearaudio Concept or even the Rega P6 with Exact. I was lucky enough this last weekend to listen to both the Clearaudio and the Marantz side by side, and the Marantz with the $950 cart stole the show.

They had a Rega P6 with Ania MC cart, but I thought that wouldn't be a fair comparison to the others AND it was listed at $2200 and out of my budget. I didn't listen to the P6, but I was able to hear the P3 with Elys cart, and it was 3rd on the list. Again, my hypothesis is that buying a package with an upgraded cart will provide a better listening experience than a better table with average cart. At least, that is what my ears told me this weekend.

And if you are wondering, I drive an Alfa Romeo Guilia. It outperforms all of the competition. :)

@tzh21y Neat. Feel free to post a study or peer reviewed article to support the claim that direct drive is better, and I’ll read it.

it's size 12 driven... 13 in adidas.

I thought we were still talking automobiles. ;)

The “Alva” TT is listed on eBay and on Audiogon here:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9f141-cambridge-audio-alva-tt-turntable-aptx-bluetooth-turntables


I’ll let you know what finally lands on my console soon.

@robelvick I thought long and hard about what I currently own, and neither table meets my needs. If the Alva TT had a straight Phono line out, I would definitely keep it. But I want to use my current tube phono preamp, which I can’t. I prefer tube to Solid State (I’ve tried a few SS under $500), and the Alva TT uses the Cambridge Audio Duo, which is solid state.

@tzh21y actually, I made a statement... and that statement was in regards to experts and professionals in the industry... the engineers that design and make the equipment we buy, or even an article or video from a renowned source. I can find hundreds of fanboy posts on forums about Technics, Clearaudio, Rega, SOTA, etc being totally superior because of belt drive or direct drive motors, and here on Audiogon, I have found just that. And when I ask for opinions, the the response (from some) is because XYZ technology is “crap”, I tend to be highly skeptical. Hence the statement... "I haven’t read anything about Technics yet to make me think their technology is superior to any other midrange table".

I was implying reading industry reviews (not marketing) by renowned critics or studies/technical pieces by engineers that state direct drive is a superior technology. If that implication wasn’t clear enough, that’s my fault, but I don’t recall the context of that statement at the moment. 

From the opinions on boards like this, direct drive is more consistent (but noisy) compared to belt drive (but possibly inconsistent). To be honest, I can’t say I have trained my ears enough to be able to notice either of those two issues, but I can definitely recognize tube vs solid state and better quality carts. So that is what I have chosen to focus on. 

In regards to statements by many on here like “Just trust your ears.”, I think that is a ridiculous comment to make when a person is asking any question online. Clearly, if that individual had the means to order and compare the equipment in their home or could listen to all of the choices in question locally at a dealer, then they wouldn’t be asking a bunch of random folks on the internet for advice. We ask these questions to narrow down choices to a select few that we can then try to listen to in person. 

Anyway, I’ve narrowed down my choices, and a Technics is not something I’m interested in.

@best-groove 👍

@analogluvr I have listened to the following tables on at least 2 occasions:

Direct Drive:
1. Higher end Technics - friend’s dad’s table
2. Cambridge Audio Alva TT - my own Turntable

Belt Drive
1. Pro-Ject Carbon Debut (Ortofon Blue 2M) - my table
2. Marantz TT-15S1 - local shop
3. Clearaudio Concept MM - local shop
4. Rega P3 w/ Elys - local shop
5 Rega P6 - friend’s table

If I were to rank them in preference for the sound I appreciate, it would probably be this:

1. Marantz TT-15S1
2. Clearaudio Concept
3. Rega P6 (wine may have helped)
4. Pro-Ject (Ortofon Blue 2M)
5. Alva TT
6. Technics tying Rega P3

I have a feeling, I have a preference for higher end cartridges. The Clearaudio Virtuoso sounded slightly warm, but very clear.

@analogluvr I would definitely agree with that statement... there are too many variables. But my original hypothesis still stands and aligns with your statement that cartridge plays a large role in the overall quality and character of the sound. So if we want to just look at the cartridges that come with the tables, that might be better. An additional hypothesis is that all the turntables I am considering are within an acceptable range of quality and performance to each other, so we can consider the “turntable package” as a whole, with the cartridge being the major determinant. Also, from a retail “package” perspective, tables come with only one or two options for cartridges. For example, the Pro-Ject Classic SB can come with an Ortofon Silver, Ortofon Red Quintet MC, or a Sumiko Blue Point #2. You can assume the Pro-Ject table is within the same quality and performance range as a Rega P3, Marantz TT-15S1, and Clearaudio Concept. 

With all that in mind, would higher quality cartridge be the main determining factor? I would say yes, so I am leaning towards a turntable that comes with the highest quality cartridge... the Marantz.

@stereo5 you would be 100% correct. The TT-15S1 is basically a “rebranding” if the Clearaudio Emotion. They slapped on the Marantz name because they “designed” it, but it’s still a clearaudio at heart.

so, what’s your point or purpose of that statement?

@uberwaltz I have to disagree with you about the approach in this price range ($1500 package). And I have to remind you that I have always stated I am looking for the best turntable “package” currently, not the best options for latter upgrades. If that were the case, I would easily just buy the Clearaudio Concept with cheaper Concept MM, and then save up for a $2000 Clearaudio MC cart. But I’m realistic, and know that my next eupgrade efforts would put me into the $4000 -$6000 package range in a number of years. I will “play with tubes” until that itch needs to be scratched.

So it seems my efforts should be focused on optimizing my cart choice over the table, based on the tables I have listed above all having very similar quality. Do you agree that the tables I have mentioned are about equal, or would you rank them differently. And if you rank them differently, would the cart option that usually comes with the table influence your opinion.

in the end, it might come down to a can’t pass up deal, but the Marantz TT-15S1 has a great $950 cart (that I’ve heard), and seems to give me the best bang for my buck. Based on staying under the $1500 budget, I have come across a Pro-Ject Classic SB with Sumiko Blue Point 2 that I have heard great things about. I might buy that cheaper option and roll some good tubes instead.

In any case, the Alva TT sold today and was shipped off to it’s new home, and I plan on listening to one or two more table packages, before I pull the trigger.

@robelvick I looked at the MH 7.3, and liked it for the Bronze. Having previously listed to a Red and a Blue Ortofon on my Pro-Ject, I would say I do like the Blue Ortofon sound a lot. There is a Clearaudio Emotion for sale here for $925, but has a Denon DL-103R cart. Seems like a good deal on a used table. I’ve read that the Denon cart is nice, but never listened to it, and wouldn’t know if it paired well with the Satisfy tone arm.

@analogluvr I’m a bit less of a DIY or audio tinkerer for sure. And I dot have the budget to continuously update my table and cart.... vinyl is a different story!

@robelvick have you heard the Sumiko Blue Point No 2 before or Ortofon Quintet Red? The Pro-Ject Classic SB comes with one of those carts based on who is selling it. I really like the look of The Classic, and obviously all of these tables are in the Pro-Ject family, so quality will be very similar to the Music Hall, right?

good to know about the Denon 103R.

“Alfa” or “Alva”?

Alfa Romeo = my car

Audi = another car I owned

Alva TT = Cambridge Audio Alva TT Turntable that I sold

😊

@stereo5 me being snarky would look like...  “what’s your point?”

me responding to an ambiguous statement looks like... “so, what’s your point or purpose of that statement?”

The additional clarification, and extra effort, removes the “snark”... for most people. 

You didn’t ask any questions, nor reference a statement made in this thread. Do you believe the two statements below communicate the same thing?

1. ”I was under the impression Clearaudio manufactured the Marantz turntable.”

2. “Since the Marantz is manufactured by Clearaudio, why not just purchase a Clearaudio turntable?”

The first statement, with the use of the idiom “under the impression” implies your understanding of something is in direct conflict with what has been stated. Since that topic was never debated nor discussed, using the idiom doesn’t fit in the context of the discussion.

Secondly, why would you assume anyone would derive your underlying point of buying a Clearaudio instead of the Marantz from your posting? There is nothing at all in your statement that would suggest a recommendation to buy a Clearaudio table instead of the Marantz, but thank you for the clarification.

My response to what you intended to communicate would be “cost”. The retail cost of a basic Clearaudio Concept is $1800. When I listened to both turntables, the sound quality coming from the Marantz ($1499 w/ Virtuoso cart) is much better in every way than the sound quality of a Clearaudio Concept w/ MM cart. With $1500 being the top of my budget, and repeatedly stating I am not looking to purchase a table for “upgrade paths”, the Clearaudio isn’t a wise purchase for me. Your opinion may differ.

@mulveling

See cost/budget statement above. If I had the money, I would buy the Clearaudio Concept (bamboo) with the Virtuoso V2 cart or buy a nice Clearaudio MC cart and purchase a midrange MC Tube Phono stage. I can currently buy a Classic SB with Sumiko BP#2 HOMC for $1100 (open box), and have extra $$ to roll some nice tubes. Or I can buy the Marantz at retail and still be on budget.

I have seen a number of Clearaudio Concept basic packages being sold on eBay for $1399 from foreign dealers, which makes me a bit skeptical. Any experience with buying from overseas dealers for a large discount? 

@lewm what is BPS? Also, what have you directly experienced with an overseas dealer? There are a couple listed as demo/show models as well. Obviously, if I can save $500 on a table, I’m definitely going to try, but don’t know the overseas market.

Also, has anyone had any good or bad experiences with HiFi Heaven (hifiheaven.net)? They have a large number of display model and open box tables for sale.

Good to know about HIFI Heaven... they have a few open box items that could allow me to grab something slightly better that what I had planned.

@lewm I am currently testing the Pro-Ject Classic with Blue Point No 2 (not BPS), and I feel like it is similar to the Clearaudio MM... maybe slightly more detailed.

I also listened/compared the Marantz TT15S1, Clearaudio Concept MM, and the Rega P6 with Ania MC and was rather impressed with the Ania MC in comparison to the Virtuoso on the TT15S1. The Ania sounded very full compared to the more open and clear sound of the Virtuoso. I plan on doing an in-home side by side test with the Pro-Ject Classic and the TT15S1 in the next couple of days. Should be fun.