I currently have a SimAudio W-7 amp. If there is a word to describe its sound, it would be NEUTRALITY precisely capitalized. I mean it is neutral to a fault. It's NOT warm, or bright, or analytical, or sweet, or anything that might be misconstrued as a personality. It's just "IS". It has nothing that would offend me but nothing that is endearing either. I suppose some people may like this type of sound. I also have another SimAudio Moon W-3 amp, and although it is neutral, but it has a distinct personality of being slightly forward, slightly upfront and ultimately more interesting to listen to.
At this point, I am a bit disappointed what the W7 is not "FOR". I want its sound to be FOR something be it slightly warm, or forward, or a touch bright or something that is a bit interesting even if it is a flaw. It's like a politician who wouldn't say he's for something at the risk of offending his potential voters.
PASS Labs amps are known to be a bit warm in the bass along with all their class A type of sound just as tube amps but they somehow make music sings.
The nice thing about Audiogon is that you can get some nice used gear at a good price if your patient and ultimately sell your amp if it isn’t performing the way you want. As you’ve noted you’re interested in tubes. . . If your not listening at ear splitting volumes you may be able to get a nice tube amp that can sound great and perform with your system. It might be worth a try.
I’ve tried a few amps and noticed that they all had different sounds. My ultimate goal is to project exactly what the performers played so I opted for amps that have high dynamic range and power and an extremely low noise floor. As Inna and others have said the music needs ultimately be engaging.
Other things that that could be an issue is your room. I’ve found the biggest impact on sound quality is speakers and then a close second is the room, third would be my amps. I hate moving because I have to look at a ton of places to be able to fit my stereo / home theater set up in a room with good acoustics. Unfortunately that quality isn’t located on a listing. You may have some room nodes at the critical middle listening range that are sucking the life out of the room/music. You can try to move your speakers into the room away from walls as much as possible or get a little more technical and get a basic USB Mic and use Room EQ Wizard to see that it looks like. Some time investment in learning to read the room will help you to know where your issue is or if there is one at all so you know if you’re chasing down the correct rabbit hole.
It's true that many can't afford great tube amps...my world class Dennis Had hand made SE HO (it's a HO...it says so right on the front of the thing) was barely used (has its birthday with Had's signature on the bottom plate) when I bought it for around 1200 bucks. Who has that kind of money lying around? And the Freya preamp...700 clams! Whew...ya gotta be Daddy Warbucks to sling THAT kind of cash around, but hey, my audio needs for great sounding gear takes some long green, but the sacrifice is worth it...
Without starting a war ( however, lately it is common for wars here to arise ), I think it is the Thiels that are not making you happy. Trying a different amp, or two, will be the only way to know.
I heard a demo of live unamplified vs recorded of the same musician back to back at an fm acoustics demo and was taken aback with how warm and how much body live music has. Don’t be scared of a bit of warmth. It’s amazing how easy one can fall into the trap of thinking cool/dull is neutral and warm is inaccurate.
Some have made the accusations that every component has its own sound personality therefore nothing is "neutral". Then why professional reviewers and people keep using the word "neutral"? Kind of a mystery.
I think it is the Thiels that are not making you happy
Ultimately I think every speakers will have their own compromises. I can get a smaller monitors but it will have its short comings.
I have found most professional reviewers use the term, referencing to live, unamplified music. Also the comment is always used after they use an " audiophile " recording ( properly mic’d, mixed and mastered ), not a compressed, badly produced recording. Getting back to the speaker situation. My Lascalas and Kosst’s focals, although different, can play any kind of music, with authority and a bit of volume to boot. I owned, and have sold Thiels, and " exciting " is not their thing ( again, not to fight with anyone ), although I really do understand why people love them, and there is a lot to love, but you might have outgrown them. Remember this, a system is a " synergy " of all things, all parts necessary for playback. Enjoy ! MrD.
Hi Andy 2, preamps and poweramps should have no personality, ruler flat, otherwise transparency = information suffers greatly. If you want a different voicing you can do that with everything else down the chain. It comes cheaper and easier to tailor.
Great post. I was going to post something similar. The answer your question, the amp should do what the owner wants it to do, or people should buy the amp that sounds good to them.
That being said, my goal is to build a system that is neutral from the streamer, to dac, to amp. Why, because I want to have less variables to contend with when I buy my speakers. If I have 3 or 4 variable, trying to then pair it with a speaker is tricky for me. If I have a warm amp, do I need a bright speaker if so, how bright? If I get a warm speaker is the sound going to be too warm with my warm amp. Throw in a dac, and it more complicated. It is like to solve a 4 variable differential equation.
The second reason is that for this system, I want to hear what the band/singer and producer/mixer decided on and felt was their product. Maybe it sounds great, maybe the recording is too bright for me, but I want to hear it as they intended (as best I can). I don't want to have my system impose coloration on the sound and I accept the consequences. I know it won't be perfect, but I want to give it ago and I can use the speakers that I demo to adjust the sound if needed. I can demo speakers at my house, or even take my amp and dac (both small and light) to the store. Much of the fun is in the process and the shopping.
I also support everyone to customize their system to their preference. If you like warm syrup, that is great. If you like bright details, that is great too.
I understand what you're saying, and what you want, but your reasoning is linear, and I think it is much more complex than you think. You still have to do it by ear, and frequency response is just one part of it.
This certainly won't be the first time something was more complex that I figured it would be. : ) Lots of projects I get about 1/2 way into and say, "Damn, this is more complicated than I figured it would be" I have everyone on Audiogon to help me though !!
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