Shiit yggdrasil


I purchased this dac a few months back and I am absolutely blown away by how much I enjoy listening to it. I have owned a Bi-dat, Ayre QB DSD, Resolution Audio, PS Audio and many others as well as in home demo of very expensive Chord, Aesthetics and DCS gear. Nothing has sounded this good in my room in my system( Devore Fidelity, Line Magnetic - other products I absolutely love). Please forgive my lack of detailed description and hyperbole as I know many of us hear and experience reproduced sound differently so you might hate it. This is just a recommendation to try it. I am so glad I did. and wanted to share my experience.
1967
Ordered one myself and kept it. Why not, 15 day trial and $2300?

Outstanding Red Book playback.This DAC along with an Aurender N100H beats hands down all other DAC/transport combos I had. First digital front end that threw a sound stage outside my Thiel 3.6 speakers and better pinpoints low frequency instruments such as double basses and cellos in the sound stage. It's dynamic range is so good that I can turn up my preamp volume to a higher setting, especially on 24 bit recordings.  

The engineering behind it is impressive and truly an advancement in digital playback that surpasses the state of the art units of ten or twenty years ago (IMO). But the price tag says it can't be taken seriously. Shame. I was looking at a Berkely Reference or a Bricasti to replace my Theta Gen Va. No more; can't justify the extra ten grand.

I've been preaching this all along that R2R Ladder Multibit dacs have it all over DSD (Delta Sigma) dacs for "Redbook" replay conversion. As they are "bit perfect" in their conversion, and not a facsimile of it, like DSD Delta Sigma conversion dacs do.

These expressive quotes from Mike Moffat (Schitt) hits the nail on the head.

We’ve thrown out delta-sigma D/As and traditional digital filters to preserve the original samples all the way through from input to output.

21 Bits, No Guessing: Mission-Critical D/A Technology
When doctors are trying to diagnose whether you have gas or cancer from MRI results, or when the military is trying to ensure a missile hits an ammo dump and not a nunnery next door, they don’t use “24 bit” or “32 bit” delta-sigma D/A converters. Instead, they rely on precision, multibit ladder DACs, like the Analog Devices AD5791. This allows them the bit-perfect precision they need for critical applications, rather than the guesswork of a delta-sigma. We chose this same critical technology for Yggdrasil. Following these unique D/A converters are sophisticated discrete JFET buffers and summers.

I heard at one guy’s house,wasn’t impressed at all. Modern DACs from the big manufacturers are all damn good nowadays, there’s no point in spending big bucks on a DAC. Make sure the DAC you get can do NOS mode though, that is the key.
I've had several DACs over the years, most recently the Wyred4sound DAC2. For those looking for a reasonably priced DAC and don't care about DSD or preamp functions, this DAC sounds unlike anything else I have ever heard. Detail, soundstage, realism...as others have said, it just sounds so different. If using USB, I found a good USB cable and the addition of a Wyred4sound Recovery an additional benefit.
+1 for all the raves on the Yggy. For those on a tighter budget, the newer multibit version of Schiit's Gungnir (or the old one + factory upgrade) go a long way towards the tech & sound of the Yggy at $1249. Very pleased with Schiit Audio and these dacs in particular. Really astounding value. Cheers,
Spencer
Post removed 
I’m having a hard time deciding between the Gungnir multibit, the Yggy, and possibly doing a trade-in with PS Audio and going for a Direct Stream Junior. A wide price range, I know. The Direct Stream Junior would be a stretch money wise for me, yet it is so tempting.

What’s the build quality of the Yggy & Gungnir like?

Is the Direct Stream Junior comparable to the higher end Shiit DACs, or is it in a different league?
I have had a PS Audio DirectStream DAC now for about 18 months and still love the unit.  One thing I really like about it is that firmware upgrades improve its performance (in my experience these sorts of upgrades usually only modify the features).  It's easy to apply these firmware upgrades, and if you like, can revert back to an older version (which I have never done).

The DirectStream Junior has the same sort of firmware upgrade process, is supposed to sound "85% as good as a DirectStream DAC".  I suspect you'll be smitten with its sound as well.

The hard drive on my media server had some corrupted files on it.  While it's been back to the factory for a "refresh" I snagged a PS Audio PerfectWave transport, with the I2S (HDMI) cable into the DirectStream DAC, it's the best sounding combination I've ever experienced.  Excellent detail!
As a former PS dac owner, and current Schiit dac owner IMHO, there is absolutely no quality drop going from PS to Schiit. Sonics merits of every model is different and I haven't heard the Directstream Jr.  I own other PS products and have nothing but praise for Paul & his company. But, your comments seem to imply that because of price the Schiit must not be well built. Not true. They sell direct, their is less markup.

The guys behind Schiit were responsible for Theta and other high end gear that was higher priced when marketed thru typical dealer base. They aren't just making value stuff. They are making some of the best sounding gear at selling it for uncommonly fair pricing.  Their used gear sells faster & at higher percent of original than most. Cheers,
Spencer
Thanks for that feedback Spencer.  That's exactly what I was looking for.

I didn't mean to imply Schiit products are not well built.  I've only become aware of the Schiit brand recently and I really don't know much about them.  I don't know if their products are well built or not, that's why I was asking for feedback from others.
Just ordered a Yggdrasil.  Here we go.  Can't wait to get my hands on this DAC.
Has anyone compared the balanced vs RCA outs on the schiit? 
henrykrinkle; please respond with your impression of this when you can. I am also interested in this piece. Also interested in the Yamaha cd s 2100, but cant find much about it.
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/670-schiit-audio-yggdrasil-multibit-dac-review/

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/schiit-yggdrasil-best-digital-ana...

Here is some very detailed info on Yggy and many listening impressions/comparisons. Cheers,
Spencer 
The review in the first link is something I read last night that helped me press the "Submit" button on Shitt's order page.  Good read.
I have Schiit’s entry-level Bifrost and for the size and array of my system it is perfect. As for build quality, let’s put it this way: You wouldn’t want one thrown at you. You’d be flat on the floor and the DAC would be playing its heart out. My other DAC is the Emotiva, every bit as good and with balanced outs at about the same price.
Heard it at can jam this week. It blew me away. I'm buying it instantly. It's honestly incredible. Analog sounding. Real. Grainy. Articulate. Not sterile. Lifelike. 2200 well spent. Mike is also freaken hilarious. HILARIOUS. American made... Ect. How can you beat this???? Let's make a fanboy Facebook page. I'm in. 
Post removed 

deepee99I have Schiit’s entry-level Bifrost and for the size and array of my system it is perfect. As for build quality, let’s put it this way: You wouldn’t want one thrown at you. You’d be flat on the floor and the DAC would be playing its heart out. My other DAC is the Emotiva, every bit as good and with balanced outs at about the same price.

Should have paid the extra $200 for the ladder Multibit version, then you would have had "Bit Perfect" conversion of Redbook.


Cheers George

The Schiit Yggdrasil is the real deal. Period. No other DAC at this price point can compete. It can compete favourably with any DAC at any price point, depending on how revealing your system is; the yiggy will reveal minute details, dynamics and spectral information that wasn't there before. My Wilsons have not sounded better. 

This is not a $2,000 DAC. It is a $12,000 DAC at 85% off. 
@darknightdk What WIlson speakers are you using? I'm not a Wilson owner but, maybe someday. Has yourself or anyone here compared this Yggy Dac against a Meitner MA-1?
I had compared it to DDDAC 1794 NOS DAC, A Non Oversampling DAC and like it a lot more than the Schiit Yggdrasil which is also excellence

I have the Sashas. I’ve not heard the MA1 so I can’t comment on that. I would urge you to find a way to audition a conditioned yiggy.

A word of advice, if you are auditioning the yiggy, it has to be ’burned in’. Fresh out of the box, the yiggy will take at least 3 weeks for it to perform at it’s best and you will notice changes and refinements in its sound signature over this duration. This is recommended before any serious evaluation. 

Even burned in, the yiggy must be left on continuously to sound it’s best. With a 5 year warranty, this should not be an issue.
@darknightdk Thanks.  Yes I've also read about the Yggy's break in time and such.  It's very re assuring to know that someone with really high end speakers as yourself is speaking and vouching for a DAC with a much lower MSRP then what some but certainly not all of Wilson owners would use as their DAC.  Again it's all personal taste and you have some real nice speakers but, you didn't feel the need to have a 10k plus DAC in your system to pair with your Sashas. Which I think speaks very highly of the Schiit DAC.  I'm really looking forwarding to acquiring this DAC soon. 
In audio, the MSRP of a product should not be a correlation to its performance. More often than not, the high markups paid relate to the exterior cosmetics of the product, marketing costs and distributor fees rather than the interior circuitry.

Schiit sells direct to consumers, relies heavily on word of mouth for marketing and places value on the it's internal circuitry and proprietary design so ultimately the consumer wins.

If one can look beyond the yiggy's price point, its no frills exterior casing and the fact it's called 'schiit', you will discover a truly high end product and one of audio's tremendous bargain.  
SKOCZYLAS

"Has anyone compared the balanced vs RCA outs on the schiit?"

Yes I have but, the results, while stunning, cannot be attributed solely to the XLR outputs.

I've had an YGGY for about 6 months now .. I introduced it into my total NAIM system with sensational results; I echo all the good words already printed above.

Anyway, I was looking to replace my NAIM Headline Headphone amp and decided to buy the Schiit Mjolnir 2 purely because it has balanced inputs .. just for Shiits and grins and for no other reason.  I use Sennheiser HD650 HP's which have the neat feature of swappable cables .. I bought the XLR cable from Sennheiser (about $300 .. Cardas cable) and 2 Tellurium Q Black Diamond XLR interconnects from the YGGY to the Mjolnir ... 

Stunning, absolutely stunning ... Now let me expand on my original statement about not being able to attribute the sound solely to the balanced outputs .. I introduced too many variables into the system at one time to be able to point to a specific component.

I have never listened to tube based headphone amp before and Tellurium Q Black Diamonds are a stunning cable.

The Schiit folks are on to something really good .. 

Is this a paid advertising? Can we see some Youtube audio/video clips that we also could experience the joy?
mdp, 
To your question is anybody using the Yggy with top notch speakers, yes. I have a friend using the Yggy with Evolution Acoustics MM3, fed by latest Spectral electronics and Sonore Rendu Signature. He compared to a number of dacs in the $5-10k(the usual suspects) with a few home demoed before deciding on the Yggy. Performance further enhanced by a few basic & reversible commonly done damping/isolation mods done by a local tech (details searchable online).  
An interesting point is that another friend bought an Yggy to replace his Phazure dac in a much more modest system using Golden Triton Ones and he is thrilled with Yggy too and can hear distinct improvement over the pricier Phazure. Cheers,
Spencer
I've read on other forums that the Gustard DAC-X20U ($870.)
outperforms the Yggy.

Anyone here compared them?
A friend owns both and uses the latter solely to play DSD files since the Yggy doesn't. Yggy wins, but if you like buying from relatively unproven Chinese companies(IMHO) like Gustard, it's overall SQ is pretty great for its price. 
FWIW, I always tell friends that gear from companies lacking strong reputations usually result in huge losses when the upgrade bug strikes down the road. "Flavor of the month" always goes sour! YMMV. Cheers,
Spencer
kana813

I’ve read on other forums that the Gustard DAC-X20U ($870.)
outperforms the Yggy.

Anyone here compared them?


Not for reproduction of Redbook CD (PCM) it can’t, as it uses sabre (Delta Sigma based) dacs.

Only Ladder Multibit Dac can reproduce PCM "Bit Perfect". Delta Sigma just gives an approximation, one thing it can do is dsd, if your into that hoax.


Cheers George

If your friend A/Bed with the Gustard with his Yggy had some mods done to the Yggy....then he should redo the test after doing some simple mods to the Gustard.  With 3 simple mods (anyone can do...no soldering) the Gustard jumps another level.  Just two days ago a friend said his not burned in stock Gustard beat his stock Yggy and now he wants to sell the Yggy.  He has yet to do any mods to the Gustard.

Huge Losses?....the Gustard costs practically nothing.  My friend does not want to post about how good the Gustard is for fear that the resale value of the Yggy will go down before he sells it.

George, I wish you were right....it would all be so simple.  However, everything you do to a DAC effects the sound.  What is real is what something sounds like.  3 people (2 posted on line) have said the Gustard beats the R2R Yggy playing 16/44.  I trust what people hear, not some obsessed person on a forum.


It’s not from an obsessed person/s on forums, just read and enlighten yourself from those many digital tech designers that are in the know about PCM conversion and search their posts and papers and advanced knowledge explanations on what’s best for PCM conversion. And you’ll understand maybe what goes on. Search "Delta Sigma vs Multibit" doing PCM.

Multibit is "bit perfect", Delta Sigma is not. And of course there are other factors (I/V stage just being one) around the conversion technique used that need to be addressed. But get it right, in both and Multibit is clearly ahead of Delta Sigma for doing PCM (Redbook) conversion.

Even Martin Mallison of ESS Sabre said in a video (if you care to search and watch it). That finally their lastest ESS Sabre dac is "close" to the performance of Mulitbit doing PCM conversion.


Cheers George

George, You say the same thing over and over on many threads...that is the definition of "obsessed".....but really besides the point.

What you are doing is generalizing. You have not heard the Schiit or the Gustard, so how can you know anything about how they sound? You cannot. I would say that generally, you are mostly correct. But not always. There are too many factors to say which DAC will sound best at any price point no matter what the technology is inside. You, obviously, think otherwise. It is too bad that you base your knowledge on guess work rather than true knowledge (actual listening tests).

Here are some more things to consider. Many, in the last couple of years have discovered the joys of upsampling all PCM to double and Quad speed DSD (using HQ player, the best sounding of all the upsampling software at this time.....to be bettered soon, no doubt). "They say" that this upsampled PCM to DSD sounds better or as good as playing the PCM through a "Great R2R DAC". The Yggy, though very good is no match for an MSB Analog...let alone Select, Rockna, TotalDAC, Trinity, etc.

Mike Levine....look him up....bought the Trinity (R2R DAC that lists for $45,000) and finally heard the glory of PCM. However, he soon sold it as Quad times DSD oversampling using the inferior JRriver software came really close using his Lampizator DAC to decode the DSD. I believe he is about to try HQ player and I bet he will be amazed.

Quadman.....look him up.... is double upsampling PCM to DSD using HQplayer into a modded Gustard and he says his PCM sounds as good as his turntable setup. He is looking for ways to get quad and eight times DSD into the Gustard.

You cannot do any of the above with an Yggy. It only plays PCM.

By the way, the three people who have A/Bed the Yggy and the Gustard, that I know of, are all listening to straight PCM and feel the Gustard is better.  None has done the DSD upsampling game yet.

ricevs,
You make some interesting and logical points. Currently on the  6 Moons Web site is a review of the French TOTALDAC d1-6  which is a R2R ladder design. According to Srajan Ebean (reviewer ) the Sabre based Fore Daisy DAC  held its own in direct comparison. As you rightly acknowledge, many factors come into play to determine the final sound quality. 
 Charles, 

It’s there for you to study and read ricevs if you take the time. PCM (Redbook) is best converted using Multibit Ladder dacs implemented correctly naturally.

If you just listen to a few biased owners that’s up to you, next you’ll be advocating Synergistic fuses, because a few say so.


Cheers George

George,

"Biased owners, DSD hoax, bad delta sigma, fuse hoax"......at least we know where you stand........seems like a swamp to me.....I would throw you a rope but you probably would ask me if it is an R2R rope.... he he

Hey, its just all for fun.  Enjoy yourself.  Love what you do and everyone. 

Ric

Like where you now stand, promoting (headlining) now on your site the mods for the Gustard, when a year ago it was for the best ever for PCM the early v1 Schitt Yggdrasil.

And yes quote like this below, are just what those voodoo fuses are all about.

6. Demagnetize the CD with a bulk eraser, one of the audiophile demagnetizers or the Walker Talisman. Works great but you must do this every time you play.

Pity they’re made of plastic and aluminium, and therefore invisible to a demagnetizer. (plenty more where that one came from) unless there's a frantic clean up done on all the voodoo. 


Cheers George

Times, they are a changin

George, stuck in the past?  The mud got you down?  Maybe I should wave my Voodoo stick and all will be better.  he he.

Love you   Have fun

Lets get back to Yggy, etc. fun, yes?

Post removed 


You started the mud slinging sunshine, with this aimed at me.

not some obsessed person on a forum


George,

Sorry, I will refrain from speaking about your personality.  I think obsession is great, as long as it is about truth.  The only truth I know that is eternal is Love.  I am obsessed about love, joy and happiness.

Love you,

Sunshine...hey, I used to be called that. 

ricevs,

Your point that both dacs should have the same mods makes sense, I will ask my friend about that.

After seeing this argument between you and George. I just clicked on your profile  From a quick browse I see that every single post you've made in 2016 on this site is about Gustard and updates to it. Then I noticed that you are a professional and the first thing on your homepage is doing updates to the Gustard.

Not that any of that convicts you of anything! Just saying that it is good practice here (and I thought Agon policy) to sign your posts such that it's clear to all readers that you have a business interest in the topic at hand and what your business is. Certainly can't hurt to sign with your company name or website below your name, right? Many of us might feel deceived reading commentary without such disclosure, though I'm sure you mean no harm. 

I've read much of the commentary, mostly on computeraudiophile and whatsbestforum regarding HQ Player and quadDSD. Hopefully, someone soons comes up with easier to configure and use software that can equal or exceed that performance. Sounds like many are frustrated with HQ Player complexity, more so than with other popular music software such as JRiver, A+, Amarra, etc. When someone does so, I'll look forward to hearing it and listening for the possibility of improvement over what I hear now from top PCM with R2R ladder dacs. Cheers,

Spencer 




Spencer, 

Please have him do the first 3 AC mods listed on my site....rather than what he did to the Yggy. 

I cannot find any policy statements about "business interests"  here....can you locate them for me?

I will put my website (tweakaudio.com) with my name when posting.  Hey big $425 mods on a few DACs......going to rake it in!  he he.

I really get excited about a product that is mind blowing for its price.  I have never had much money but always want the best sound I can get.  When I find such things (whether or not I have any financial interest in them) I share my findings freely.  I want everyone to be happy!

When the Yggdrasil came out a year ago I was so excited that I helped my friend mod his (my suggestions....he did all the work) and put a page on my website with link from my front page showing how to DIY mod the Yggy.  I did not mod the Yggy but wanted people to know how great the Yggy was and that one could do these simple mods and get even greater sound.  I thought the Yggy would be great for years!  Digital is changing fast!!!  Only a couple of weeks ago did I remove the link on my website.....if you search you will find it.  I did not remove the info from the web.  But why would you want to mod an Yggy now that a way less expensive DAC is better and more versatile?

What people are doing is combining Roon with HQplayer.  You have the incredible ergonomics of Roon and the great sound of HQplayer.

Ric Schultz

tweakaudio.com

ricevs, when will Gustard X20 Level 2 mod be available?   Digital is a computer so I never chase latest or greatest.   Too much depreciation hit.

I cannot find any policy statements about "business interests" here....can you locate them for me?

I don't understand why people care for identity of a post.  This is a free open INTERNET forum so one should judge CONTENTS of a post.

I am going to take the time necessary to really do a serious output stage on the Gustard. I have tried a couple of output stages but they were only slightly better. I want it to blow your mind. So, it will take time....maybe a couple of months....maybe sooner....maybe later. However, level one completely transforms the DAC into another whole level. It will be easy to update to any new mods as the Gustard is not heavy and easy/light to ship and I turn around things in a couple of days. I just started a thread on What’s Best Forum that will be the main place for people to share and ask questions about the Gustard.  Sorry for hijacking the thread....but someone asked about the Yggy/Gustard difference and there we went.   Back to regular programing.

Ric Schultz

tweakaudio.com

Thread praising DAC1, shill comes on and completely derails thread arguing that DAC2 is better, and as a result thread dies and goes to purgatory. Shill doesn't disclose that he sells and makes a living off mods for DAC2. All is well with the world.
Interesting to see his 'subtle' methods here as well:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/schiit-yggdrasil-dac?highlight=yggdrasil

Shilled his mods for the yggdrasil, which wasn't even available to market yet. Somehow he had an idea of mods for it by simply looking at the casework. Lol. This guy is a genius. Must have not had enough business coming in for Yggy mods, so he turns his attention to a cheaper alternative DAC, and guess what guys, this one is much better than the Yggy. This very DAC he spoke about being comparable to the TOTALDAC et al here:
 
Right now my friend is thrilled with the changes but would love to A/B with some other serious DACs so if you want to hear a modded Yggy then let me know and we can hook you up with this guy....he is in Pocoima. I think his modded Yggy would be much better than the MSB Analog DAC.....so DACs like the Bricasti, The Total DAC Dual, Empirical Audio DAC, Lampizator Golden Gate, and Berkeley Reference would be nice to compare with. I have a feeling the modded Yggy would do very well against these DACs and there is much more to do....much more.

Suddenly he has a change of heart and the Gustard is better----especially with his mods attached to it. Lol, this fella is hilarious. He has tweaks and mods for this one, and he shows up in every thread on any forum on earth to sing the praises of this new DAC --- but always with his mods attached to its greatness. Hmmm....I've been to many a fish market, and I know my fish, and this is reaal feeeesshy. I suggest you desist from suggesting DAC purchases while simultaneously selling the mods you provide for them. Highly unscrupulous!

Pardon me, but I never did mods on the Yggy.  I posted mods on my website that were DIY mods only.  When the Yggy was released I was super excited.  I thought the Yggy (especially with mods) would be a reference product for years (just shows you how fast digital is changing). This is why I helped my friend who had one do the mods....I suggested them and he did them at his house one at a time.  He took photos and I put the whole thing up on my site so that those with Yggys could see how to mod them, if they chose.  No one chose to do all the mods that I know of.  I never modded an Yggy nor have I ever had one here.  If you search you can find my Yggy mod page (no longer linked from my site but still in the ethers).  But I have been waiting for a DAC to mod and the Gustard is the real deal.

The stock Gustard speaks for itself.  Read the other threads where people have done A/Bs against other DACs.  Obviously, one can take anything further, which is what I am doing.  Yes, I am making a ton of money on $400 mods on cheap DACs.....ha ha.

Your quote above was about the modded Yggy being compared to other things.....and yes, at the time I thought it might be as good as I suggested.  In fact, it might be.  The trouble is....no one wanted or wants to mod their own Yggy.  Simply too expensive of a product to mod (and maybe lose resale value) and Schiit is not into tweaking and would not support mods (I am assuming). 

Suggesting inexpensive mods for sale on the internet is not unscrupulous.  Most who buy the stock Gustard will never do a mod nor have me do one.....you know that is true.  They will be super happy with it stock.  But for those that want more for very little then there are people like myself who offer services that are super reasonable.  If you have just bought an Yggy I can see how you would be very uncomfortable with this whole conversation.  If this info about the Gustard is true then the Yggy becomes yesterdays toy.  Do you think the Gustard will be "The DAC" at its price point in a year....no way Jose.  We are moving real fast here.  There maybe a $500 DAC in year that is even better.  More reason not to invest so much now in digital with it changing (for the better) so fast.

The faster this info about the Gustard gets out the more people are served......they get better more versatile sound for less.  I love to serve people.....Great sound for the masses!  You have to get how fast digital is changing.  If you are not reading all the forums and studying closely then you are going to spend more than you need and on inferior gear.  The Yggy is a great DAC....no doubt.  Just don't read any of the other threads about the Gustard (stock or modified) and you will be fine.

There was a cartoon in the old "Audio" magazine that showed this guy sitting on a park bench holding a brand new preamp box that he just opened and his head was down all forlorn looking and the caption said.  "Joe, just realized that his brand new preamp was already out of date".  I hope to keep a few people from suffering this fate.  Love is all there is.

Ric Schultz

tweakaudio.com