The Shibata stylus was developed in the '70s for four channel LPs as the existing conical and elliptical styli of the day were too massive. Four channel cartridges had frequency response up into the 40-70 kHz region. This stylus shape is compatible with all vinyl and won't do any damage. One of the best cartridges I've ever owned was the Sleeping Beauty Shibata moving coil from Great American Sound.
Stefanl, "Shibata" styli fall under many titles. They are also known as, "Hyperelliptical," "Fine Line," "Stereohedron," "Modified Line Contact," etc.
This shape is a further extension of the basic elliptical design. The Shibata stylus, originally designed for playing discrete quadraphonic discs, reduces wear by contacting the groove walls in a line rather than at only two points as do the conical and elliptical styli. The edge of the Shibata stylus is narrower than the elliptical stylus and therefore traces even higher recorded velocities.
This stylus shape was originally developed in Japan, and provides much greater contact with the record, offering the combination of high trackability with less record wear. Carefully aligned, this type will offer a better high frequency and improved trackability. This type of cut will give you three times the footprint area within the record groove walls as other stylus cuts. Besides lasting approximately twice as long as other styli, the Shibata stylus tip will, once again, significantly reduce record wear. No stylus cut is written in stone. There are no "standards" that must be followed. So, many manufacturers have their own little variation on the basic styli cuts. Van den Hul, just as an example, takes the Shibata cut one step further with their own "proprietary" cutting geometry.
Happy Listening, Ed.
Wasn't the stereohedron specifically the one used for CD-4 LP's because the grooves in those LP's were so damn thin (I have abotu 20)? I recall it being the ONLY one useful (if you could call it that) for CD-4 awhile the others were okay for SQ (I have about 30). Seems it is what was in an Audio Technica cartridge I had in the quad days but I can't remember the model for the life of me. I know it had a gold body.
I dunno 4yanx. It might of been the stereohedron. SQ....CD-4....DBX....man, is that stirring up some memories.
I remember purchasing a Sonus "Dimension 5" MM cartridge at the time that quad was pretty much becoming a dead issue. 78-79-80? The Sonus used the Shibata geometry.
You still have that many quad LPs? You may need to set up another analog rig (maybe a Dual 1228 or a Garrard Zero 100, a 4 channel cartridge, and one of those old Marantz receivers with the little joystick? Maybe 4 KLH model 17s? At that point, I'll send you my DBX LPs and a DBX 222 decoder. You could do a CD-4, SQ, DBX shootout.
The battle of the old technologies. Might be interesting.
In all seriousness, I think that there are still several manufacturers using the Shibata stylus geometry. But, it's geometry is never identical as some manufacturers tweak the cutting very slightly. It's cool to look at the stylus in a cross section. It has a LOT of surface contact. Although, cartridge alignment must become much more critical sonically.
Let me know when you want those DBX LPs. :>) Ed.
Oh, I jest ye not. I have been pondering just such an adventure. As it happens, I have an old Sony CD-4 decoder and a Tate/Fosgate SQ decoder. Have been thinking of putting together a table for fun that runs quad (for kicks, you know, man). Trouble would seem to be in finding a quad cartridge these days that isn't spent.
Oh, I'd like to give a spin to those DBX'ers - they may have been just about to get things right (or as right as they could) with DBX before the bottom fell out of the quad market. OTOH, I have heard some old SQ tapes thorough the Tate/Fosgate that sound pretty damn good.
Would you like that in DUAL MC or DUAL MM? :>)http://www.audio-technica.com/guide/other/styli/cart.html#AT440ML
Check out "MicroLine", and let me know where to send those DBX LPs.
BTW 4yanx. I was just trying to figure out what I was using back then as quad decoder/amp. The decoder was some kind of Dynaco, but I forget which model. The amp was a "Lafayette Radio Electronics" 60 watt x4. (it was probably more like 18 watts x 4 @ 5% THD.)
The turntable was a Phillips "212 Electronic" with a Shure "M91QD" quad cartridge. It's dampening/isolation was so horrible that when the cat would walk across the room, it would send 20hz transients through the whole house. Speakers of choice were BIC "Venturi's". If I remember correctly, they were 10" 3 way's. They were cool too. I remember using ELPs "Lucky Man" to make the system feedback until the amp used to go into "protect". That was really cool too.
Man, I was a f***ing idiot.
If you interested I found a link to the Shibata Stylus type patent through Vinyl Asylum go to www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html which is the search engine page for U.S patents.Do a number search as follows Shibata 3774918,Van Den Hul 4416005,Gyger 4855989,Ogura 4105212,Namiki 4521877 You might need to add a plug-in for viewing which is available as a link from the site,the Shibata one needs it for it's drawings.Anyway you see the different styluses properly drawn and described-highly informative.
Yeah, I have about 50 old quad LP's. Not sure if I am bragging or complaining but I bought them all when new and, needless to say, they haven't been played very much. Most are still perfect. Some of the SQ's don't sound half bad in 2-channel. The CD-4's sound thin, though.
The quad Audio Technica cartridge I had looked similar to that AT440ML. Mine was paired with a Pioneer direct-drive PL-55DX. I saw a mint one go on E-Bay for like $280 awhile back and I about crapped my drawers. I had a Pioneer 747 receiver and, later, a Marantz 4400. I bought mine with the Marantz SQ decoder, which SUCKED. The Sony CD-4 decoder leaves something to be desired but the Tate/Fosgate is really one nice piece.
When in 2-channel mode, I used a pair of Ohm C2's which I still own. I completely refinished the SUPER nice walnut with a family secret powder and oil process two years ago and had the woofers re-coned.
In four-channel, I had a set of ESS speakers that were called Satellite 4's. I have yet to meet anyone else who remembers them (partially with good reason). They had four small 6" satellite speakers and a big 12" "bass-reflex" speaker (all dressed up in ZEBRAWOOD!!!) - and all run through an outboard crossover box. I still have two of the satellites and the bass-reflex (the cone is SHOT). The crossover box got swiped and I gave two of the satellites to a friend. I'd like to put that set back together for old time's sake some day.
The idea of going multi-channel with old equipment is certainly suprassed by the surround stuff one can get today. But, as Sammy Davis, Jr. might have said - "It's just for kicks, man!"
Sorry, this is all way off topic.....
hey 4yanx if you need a cheap Quad cart., look on E-bay b/c I saw onelast night for $49. Look up item#3089092676 Though you might like an option.
Yeah, I love the button in that listing where you can "click to see a larger picture"! :-) Check out his $1.49 tonearm, too. Anyone every bought anything from that seller?
4yanx, I remember Ohm C-2s. They were a really great sounding speaker. I once heard them hooked up to an old Luxman Class A power amp. They sounded incredible. So did the Luxman.
I also apologize for steering so far off track with this thread. Ed.
Did I read that there was a spare dbx 222 decoder floating around, or was it just an offer of a loan/comparison?
I am looking for a dbx II unit for transferring some of my recordings as unfortunately the deck that holds the circuitry has gone kaput and no one can repair it.
Can anyone who knows where I can obtain a decoder please help!!
i bought my first system back in the 4 chanell era. at that time i only knew of the audio technica at15s and the at20s. i bought the at15s for 100 dollars. the at20s was 150 dollars. at that time, c-d 4 needed a cartridge to handle frequencies to go up to 40,000 hertz. i see that many today will go that high!!
We have a mint quad channel vinyl "Dark Side of the Moon" Pink Floyd (who else). I've always what it would sound like using a quad channel cartridge.
amg56, it depends on what 4 chanell format your album is. if it's a c-4 album you would need the demodiulator to separate the 4 chanells to the 4 speakers. if it's not a c-4 album you will not notice a 4 chanell sound.