It’s a good question. I, too, am looking at the Serafina’s, but vs. the Olympica IIIs and not against the Elipsa - which unfortunately, I can’t fit into my very large room for a variety of reasons. I think the Elipsa’s are voiced more in the long tradition of SF speakers, - a higher performing, more revealing, easier to place speaker than the O IIIs, but generally similar tonal character.
I actually prefer the newer voicing of the Serafino’s which I find a bit “lighter”. It’s probably still not a neutral speaker, but it’s very easy to listen to. The Serafino’s are still warmish in the mid bass, but less so than the Olympica’s, and so I believe than the Elipsa too. However, like the Elipsa, the Serafino’s are pretty revealing but not harsh and unforgiving. Both are wonderful speakers.. And, if looks count, can’t go wrong either way, but my heart flutters over the Serafino’s. Drop dead gorgeous. Let us know what you decide.
Best,
Mgrif |
Thanks for the reply. A close friend of mine that's a dealer told me today that Sonus Faber is completely dead in the market. He said you can hardly give the stuff away on the used market. Not that that should scare either of us. Probably just the opposite although he said if you ever want to trade out you're going to take a hit.
I have always like SF. I had a pair of Liutos a couple of years ago that nice. If I err, it's always on the side of romantic and a little warm. I'm looking at a bunch of stuff. I have Wilson Duettes now and am considering everything from Wilson Alexia to Raidhos (which are also cheap) to Focal Scala 2 to the SF speakers. My room isn't that small (15x20) but it's crappy (only 1 side wall) and I have too much furniture. The Duettes are really good in less than ideal rooms. I've read the Ellipsas are as well. I hear Raidho not so much and I could never manage the 9ft of separation recommended for the Raidhos.
Please let me know what you end up doing.
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Interesting - I’ll have to look into that as I hadn’t heard that SF was doing poorly. I’m in the Midwest with no dealers for >100+ miles. But, the dealers in Milwaukee and Chicago seem to be doing ok. A dealer in AZ has so much volume, it’s astonishing (he’s the largest dealer in the world). I do suspect SF does better in generally more affluent markets.. I also wonder if there’s some “wait and see” among consumers with the refreshing of the line, it’s new voicing, sumiko’s distribution, etc. In any case, if that brings down some prices, I’ll be ok with that.
I wish I could make the Elipsa’s work because I think they’re particularly good. I have a huge room (20x30) with a vaulted ceiling, all hard surfaces (full log construction) but my system is necessarily somewhat tucked into a corner where I can’t bring the speakers out for proper spacing from each other or the back wall. The footprint of the Elipsa means they won’t work. My placement situation will always be far from ideal, so I’ll just put some speakers I like and be happy with it. Since my room is bright with bass suck outs, a little warmer and romantic is just what I want.
I haven’t heard the Duettes, but have heard very good things about their performance in diffucult to place situations. The newest Wilson stuff I really like too but the cabinets will never make it past my wife (or me for that matter). I haven’t heard the Raidho, but have heard the Focals. And, they’d be too bright and I’ve sworn off metal tweeters (which I have now and am trying to fix in this room). I suspect they’re great when paired with the right stuff but the SF will better suit my needs. I’m actually waiting to see if they refresh the Olympica line (which I hear they will next) and that may mean either I can get a great deal on the current, or they’ll move closer to the Serafina’s and that’d be very nice too.
Best, |
The dealer that told me about SF being weak had no dog in the fight. It's a guy I've done business with for 25 years. He's one of the largest used/demo dealers in the U.S. We were talking and I mentioned I was thinking about new speakers. I asked about SF Serafino and Elipsa. He said he doesn't have any but he's offered them all the time. He said he won't buy them unless he has a customer for them immediately because the market is flooded with SF. I don't know about the whole market but you can look on Audiogon and see tons of SF and prices way down from where they were a year-18 months ago. He said he's been offered Elipsa for $6k and heard they trade privately for as little as $8k. I think they were $22k retail.
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OP,
Used HiFi market is tough right now and this holds true for everything across the board...cables, electronics and speakers.
You can get a used mint pair of Serafino’s for $13500 (listed here on Audiogon).
I have recently auditioned the Amati’s (very similar to Serafino’s) and they were quite impressive. Plenty of bass, nice extended high’s but tab bit reserved on the mid-range.
I still prefer my B&W 800D2 over Amati’s so I decided not to pursue them. |
Yes and no. My buddy who is a large dealer said he's still having a pretty good year. I guess not all dealers are. He wasn't slamming SF, he likes them and I traded in my Liutos to him. He just commented that he's getting a ton of calls from dealers and individuals looking to sell SF. Many pairs of used Raidhos as well. Wilson Audio, OTOH seems to be holding up better.
As for me, I just buy what I like and figure I'm going to lose something when I trade it in anyway. I have a couple of non-popular brands that I know will be tough resells when that time comes.
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Yes, Sonus Fabers on the used market are a tough sell. They are always plentiful - always easy to find Olympicas, Guarneri Evos, Cremonas, Elipsas, Strads, Futuras, and now even the newest Tradition line are available on the used market. I just think most used sellers are overpricing them. If they don't sell for a couple months maybe the price is too high??? It does seem that all speakers dn't hold their value at all in the current decline of high end pricing (imho), so it is not just Sonus Faber. I think used Sonus Fabers are much more plentiful though, and seems to be around 60% off retail at least for the most part. I had the Elipsas a while back and they actually like being closer to the walls compared to the Amatis or Olympicas. |
Is $5995 too much to pay for a nice pair of Guarneri Homage? I think so, but I'm tempted to "haggle" with the local dealer but I am not sure what a "good, fair" price on them would be. No boxes or any other packing material, but with original stands and bases, as of 11-17-19 |
@ps Let's put it this way, IF you can find a superior sounding speaker to the GH's at the price of $5995- I would jump on that. I don't think that is likely ( maybe even possible). As such, if the GH's you have found are in decent working order and in fair shape, I would grab them. Now, i am a little biased, as I own these speakers, BUT my first point stands. |
@daveyf
No, I do not think I will find a superior-sounding speaker for $5995 and that’s an excellent way to put it, sir. Thank you. The GH’s of which I speak, are in virtually perfect condition.
I am using Cremona Auditor M’s in my small, dedicated listening room and they sound great. They perform a disappearing act, and image like crazy.
Alas, I cannot audition the GH’s in my room so I cannot know how much better or different they’d sound. The Auditor M’s are lovely to look at but the GH’s are sublime. I couldn’t live with "ugly" speakers no matter how good they might sound. :)
I shall consider the GH opportunity further, and with seriousness. |
@ps The GH’s are not that common on the used market. I believe that whenever they do show up, they usually sell quickly, ( and for very good reason, IMHO). Compared to your Cremona Auditor M’s, I believe you would get a large uptick in SQ...which is saying a lot. The GH’s were IMO one of the crowning glories of Franco Serblin...and I believe superior to the G’s that have followed. Getting a pair in perfect condition is an opportunity indeed~ |
@daveyf
Thank you for your comments, sir. I, too, am a big fan of Franco Serblin, may he RIP. He left us far too soon. The Italians are masters at creating beauty. I lived and worked in Italy during my younger days and have first-hand knowledge!
The GH's I auditioned sounded absolutely wonderful- no surprise there! I'm going to try to rearrange the moon and a few stars this week...as the cliche' goes, "life is short."
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@ps Hope you become a fellow GH owner..good luck with the purchase. |
I hope I’ve not hijacked this thread! The comments regarding the market for used Sonus Faber caught my eye, especially in light of my recent audition of a pair of Guarneri Homage. I confess to being somewhat obsessed with SF in general, and the Guarneri series in particular. Perhaps I’ve added something of value here. And, I’m not at all convinced that "...Sonus Fabers on the used market are a tough sell..." I say that based on personal experience, having sold a lovely pair of Liuto monitors a day or two after I listed them, and at a favorable price.
@daveyf
Thank you again for your positive words! I will report back as soon as possible. In the meantime, I’m spending a few hours on a rainy day streaming Qobuz through my Cremona Auditor M’s. :) |
Moon, stars, and a few planets aligned! I am now the ecstatic owner of a pair of pristine, late production (2004) Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage speakers.
@daveyf, you are absolutely correct in saying that, as good as the Cremona Auditor M’s are, the improvement in SQ of the GH’s is quite something. Your perspective helped me enormously.
Appropriately, the first album I'm listening to is "Paganini: Duets for Violin and Bassoon" with Salvatore Accardo, Claudio Gonella, with Bruno Canino on piano. :)
I am truly blessed. |
