SET amps ?

To me it depends on musical taste as well as speaker efficiency as to whether or not an SET will suit your individual needs. I find these amps have their limitations for ALL types of music but fare extremely well with small scale and vocal music. The budget SETs I've personally listened to would be less preferrable than a PP tube amp that would probably achieve greater musical satisfaction over a broader range of music. No one can answer this for you. You have to listen yourself. Like Ralph, I prefer OTLs and secondly a good PP amp for the wide range of music I listen to, but that is me. I would expect a good SET with wide bandwidth performance, convincing bass and dynamic impact would cost considerably more than your budget would allow.

I agree with Bombaywalla, step back, determine what you are trying to achieve within your budget and try to listen to as many options as you can.

Hi Charles

Yes I am sure you are talking about those that are well designed as was Salectric, at least that can perform at a satisfactory performance level that they can be used on a wide variety of music. The output transformer and power supply design would certainly come into play as it does with all designs but more so with an SET to realize realistic performance across the frequency spectrum. I have yet to hear a budget SET, admittedly the breed I'm most familiar with, perform adequately full bandwidth, at least from my perspective. This isn't to say they don't exist but I doubt at the budget the OP is looking at. This is why I chimed in on this thread. I personally feel that a PP or say a used Atmas-phere 30 watt stereo OTL may be a better alternative unless he listens primarily to small scale, music where a budget SET would be satisfactory and perform quite well, that magical midrange. I have heard a few expensive, well designed SETs that were superb across the board, the Lamm being a great example with the Russian 6C33 tube, not typical for sure and very expensive.

Since their reemergence as a more mainstream audiophile alternative for high efficiency speakers 20 years or so ago, there have been numerous offerings at various pricepoints so I'm sure there are some that offer excellent performance for all types of music. Out of general curiosity I too would be interested in hearing your input as to what one might have to spend to achieve what I have described above and a few examples.

In any case Charles, I am looking for an SET that has the transparency and full bandwidth performance ALONG with the magical midrange that I hear with a good OTL type design which I have found, when used with the right speaker, can be most special and more importantly, realistic. Not everyone would agree with my assessment it seems but many sure do. I have many more personal listening experiences with OTL type designs, Ive heard numerous and owned a few but I'm no absolutist about anything audio, it often just boils down to synergy as well as taste, what works best in a given application. I am wondering if my experience with SETs in general, I have heard a few expensive ones besides the above mentioned Lamm, also lacking what I have come to expect from an amplifier. We all have our tastes, biases and objectives, no? This is not a challenge to you as so much as to me and my prejudices based on MY experiences and tastes. I REALLY would like to be aware of and listen to a great SET that would take back my general preconceptions that is not other worldly in price.

Thank you Charles for your input. I do suppose that you are right, I just prefer OTLs overall for what they generally provide and I hear in live music. I don't personally find OTLs lean sounding but compared to virtually all the SETs I've listened to I can certainly see where some would. I have an audio buddy that owns an Italian Integrated 845 based SET, huge transformers and a beast at 135 lbs. I've heard it plenty of times and really like it for vocals, it can really draw you into the performance. The last time we listened my impressions were as you describe so well above. Interestingly to ME that "color saturation" that really serves voice so well did not carry over to instruments. The timbre was too much of a good thing which is a consistent impression. Piano sounded unnaturally rich to me and ironically I found it missing much of the subtle ambient harmonic overtones and decay in the recording venue that is so clearly resolved with my Berning. There must be a balance somewhere and I was just curious to know if there is an SET out there reasonably priced that might "win me over" with across the board performance. I just haven't heard one to date less the Lamm but would love to.

Thank you Charles for providing a few examples. I must say they all look nice particularly the 50 watt Absolare which is quite stunning looking. At 37K a pair I would expect its performance to match its looks and that price. The Allnic at 19.5K looks more promising to us more "pedestrian" audiophiles. I was thinking on the line of something more modestly priced like the Coincident Frankenstein which also looks quite nice. I see you have this amp but at 8 watts it would seemingly require a quite efficient speaker to make full range, large scale music come alive as I have come to expect. I doubt the DeCapos I am currently using at 92db would be efficient enough for use of an 8 watt amp for my needs and room size. Less can certainly be more as long as it's enough.

Well I would definitely agree that a higher impedance load particularly for a tube amp will always be advantageous. I am aware that some folks use low powered SET amplifiers with the DeCapos but I'm not convinced that it will suit my needs for my listening tastes but sure would like to try a good one that might work, which is why I asked you your thoughts. Often times people that gravitate towards these amplifiers tend to listen to smaller scale music, at least this SEEMS to be the case to me.

Charles I would like to further comment on the example I gave you above concerning the 845 integrated. This amplifier uses 2 845s per channel for a total of 4 and puts out 35 watts. I'm not too sure about the class of operation and feedback used but what I noted about it and virtually all SETs I've heard relative to the better PP and OTLs is a tendency to get a bit thick and confused during complex, dynamic music. I wouldn't begin to suggest that this is the case for all these designs but it really is my impression over the years from that first time 20 years ago when I heard a small Cary integrated with the 211 tube driving Swann speakers to everything since. Yes I suppose I am a bit prejudiced against SETs in general but only based on my personal experience. I don't necessarily believe they ALL sound like this since I haven't begun to hear everything out there. I seriously doubt I've heard the best of this breed.

I have recently become aware of a prototype 845 based design by David Berning that is pure Class A, zero feedback and 50 watts using his zotl technology. I don't know if and when it will be marketed but this seems to me a design that could meld the best attributes of both SET and OTL amplifiers. My guess is that it still wouldn't be rich enough for some tastes which seemed to be the case with his Seigfried.