Sellers Beware of PayPal! (Update)


This is an update to a previous post that was deleted - likely because many (including me) were piling on the Buyer - so please don't do that!

Here are the basic details as a reminder as well as the long road to the final outcome, which is PayPal closed the case again in favor of the buyer. 

  1. Buyer buys TT for $2500
  2. Buyer arranges shipping and insurance with UPS
  3. TT delivered June 6
  4. Buyer charges back to PayPal July 2 "Item not as described" (includes pics of the inside of the crate showing damage to the crate and the TT)
  5. I dispute with PayPal and lose
  6. I file a claim with UPS in the hopes that Buyer will get paid and at least I can show PayPal he is "double dipping" as I have zero expectation he would reimburse me
  7. In the meantime, Buyer refuses to hand over the crate to UPS when they went to pick it up for inspection and instead ships crate back to me UPS ground, no insurance.
  8. Crate arrives, all components are loose, zero packing, not even bubble wrap, and 5 things are missing (adjustable feet, cart, record weight)   
  9. I take a bunch of photos and send to UPS  
  10. An Adjuster with UPS tells me the case is "going my way" largely because of the level of photo documentation I provided during the original packing/shipping process but she needs to speak with the Buyer
  11. Next thing I know is the UPS case is closed/denied and the adjuster stops taking/returning my calls
  12. I file an appeal with PayPal, they tell me to get the TT inspected by a professional (this costs $80 to put in writing that the TT is damaged beyond repair) and to file a report local police but they refuse to take a crime report because its a civil dispute
  13. PayPal then tells me to file am internet crime report with IC3.gov which I do but they later reject it with no explanation and tells me again to file a report with local police
  14. PayPal closes the case again Aug 23.

I spoke with PayPal dispute agents and supervisors many times, actually getting through to a person fairly quickly, but they are all drones in offshore call centers. 100's of text messages too.

They go through the motions and pretend to be sympathetic but then someone from the "back office team" rejects the very items they requested.

I learned that much of the documentation, emails, photos etc. had never been reviewed by anyone.

The PP dispute process was a joke, stressful and obviously a waste of time but once I started I was "pot committed" to seeing it through to the end.

Note that PayPal "Seller Protection" is not applicable at all in this scenario,

Ultimately my mistakes were:

  1. Accepting payment via PayPal!!!
  2. Trusting the Buyer when there were red flags (no AG purchase history and length of time between initial contact, payment and sending shipping label)
  3. Allowing the shipping and insurance to be arranged by the Buyer
  4. Allowing shipping via UPS Ground rather than special freight (to properly handle a 125Lb wooden crate)

I'm not done yet though...stay tuned for the results of Plan B 😈

macg19

@mwjones 

Where do you find this rule? My understanding is a 1099 reports income and goes on Schedule A after you complete Schedule C: Profit & Loss From A Business. That would clearly allow you to take a loss on a specific sale. Whether you want to try to take a loss on gross sales would depend on your records and accountant's advice.

You are correct that you can deduct the excess of cost and expenses over sales price if you are in the business of buying and selling whatever you received the 1099 for. 

I should have specified that my advice above was only intended for the sales of items that are personal property such as stereo equipment that you purchased for non-business use including as a hobby.

 

 

@mwjones 

 

wow…very nicely explained…unfortunately a cold slap of reality.

 

 

 

 

Why would a buyer intentionally damage the item? He got nothing out of all this, since he returned the turntable.

No, he got his money back..  Perhaps he changed his mind about wanting the table and this is a way to get a refund. 

I once shipped a speaker that was extremely well packed with a thick layer of carboard over the woofer. The woofer cone got ripped. Either the buyer did it accidentally or on purpose to get a refund, but it was impossible it just ripped in transit.

In many cases the shipping company will claim the item was improperly packed and deny a claim. Fortunately, I had it packed at the UPS store and paid them for insurance. Doing it that way they can't claim improper packaging. They paid the claim and I kept the speaker. 

Lesson... if you don't have original packing pay to have the UPS store or FedEx do it for you. Even if you do if the item is expensive or fragile pay them to double box it. Buy insurance. Be persistent and they will pay

 

 

 

Post removed 

@macg19,

Earlier in this thread you said that you didn't want to reveal the name of the buyer at that time, and now you've said that you can't, or your post will be removed as it has been before. I'm confused. Others here name names where fraud is concerned, and their posts aren't removed.