Sellers Beware of PayPal! (Update)


This is an update to a previous post that was deleted - likely because many (including me) were piling on the Buyer - so please don't do that!

Here are the basic details as a reminder as well as the long road to the final outcome, which is PayPal closed the case again in favor of the buyer. 

  1. Buyer buys TT for $2500
  2. Buyer arranges shipping and insurance with UPS
  3. TT delivered June 6
  4. Buyer charges back to PayPal July 2 "Item not as described" (includes pics of the inside of the crate showing damage to the crate and the TT)
  5. I dispute with PayPal and lose
  6. I file a claim with UPS in the hopes that Buyer will get paid and at least I can show PayPal he is "double dipping" as I have zero expectation he would reimburse me
  7. In the meantime, Buyer refuses to hand over the crate to UPS when they went to pick it up for inspection and instead ships crate back to me UPS ground, no insurance.
  8. Crate arrives, all components are loose, zero packing, not even bubble wrap, and 5 things are missing (adjustable feet, cart, record weight)   
  9. I take a bunch of photos and send to UPS  
  10. An Adjuster with UPS tells me the case is "going my way" largely because of the level of photo documentation I provided during the original packing/shipping process but she needs to speak with the Buyer
  11. Next thing I know is the UPS case is closed/denied and the adjuster stops taking/returning my calls
  12. I file an appeal with PayPal, they tell me to get the TT inspected by a professional (this costs $80 to put in writing that the TT is damaged beyond repair) and to file a report local police but they refuse to take a crime report because its a civil dispute
  13. PayPal then tells me to file am internet crime report with IC3.gov which I do but they later reject it with no explanation and tells me again to file a report with local police
  14. PayPal closes the case again Aug 23.

I spoke with PayPal dispute agents and supervisors many times, actually getting through to a person fairly quickly, but they are all drones in offshore call centers. 100's of text messages too.

They go through the motions and pretend to be sympathetic but then someone from the "back office team" rejects the very items they requested.

I learned that much of the documentation, emails, photos etc. had never been reviewed by anyone.

The PP dispute process was a joke, stressful and obviously a waste of time but once I started I was "pot committed" to seeing it through to the end.

Note that PayPal "Seller Protection" is not applicable at all in this scenario,

Ultimately my mistakes were:

  1. Accepting payment via PayPal!!!
  2. Trusting the Buyer when there were red flags (no AG purchase history and length of time between initial contact, payment and sending shipping label)
  3. Allowing the shipping and insurance to be arranged by the Buyer
  4. Allowing shipping via UPS Ground rather than special freight (to properly handle a 125Lb wooden crate)

I'm not done yet though...stay tuned for the results of Plan B 😈

macg19

@ghasley

Buyer arranged and paid for shipping and insurance (this was one of my mistakes)

He used the Audiogon PayPal button which is not FF but yes FF would have been better. But so would Craiglist and cash. I’ve done very well with CS.

I closed the checking account and the CC is an old number and yes you can dispute the charge if PP attempts to collect the negative balance but that doesn’t change the fact that they are attempting to collect a debt which they can report to the credit bureaus.

Thanks!

You note: Buyer charges back to PayPal July 2 "Item not as described" (includes pics of the inside of the crate showing damage to the crate and the TT).

Why would a buyer intentionally damage the item? He got nothing out of all this, since he returned the turntable.

 

So PayPal F&F would have prevented this, correct?   I'm only asking as I may be selling my speakers soon and am looking to protect myself. 

@macg19 can you post who the buyer was? Don't want others dealing with this scam artist.

Thanks

"You note: Buyer charges back to PayPal July 2 "Item not as described" (includes pics of the inside of the crate showing damage to the crate and the TT).

Why would a buyer intentionally damage the item? He got nothing out of all this, since he returned the turntable."

@charles7 Usually when there is a long time between receipt and chargeback it is because the buyer has been trying to work it out with the seller and gives up. Remember we are only getting one side of this story. Color me skeptical.