Sellers and "Ambiguity" or "Integrity" of "item as described" descriptions on eBay


Hello all:

I posted this on a thread about speakers and fraud and eBay, but I thought it might merit its own topic:

I have a situation at the moment where I bought a subwoofer on ebay. The seller described that the subwoofer was "In perfect working condition and sounds great. It has some cosmetic wear" but neglected to mention that it was missing a cable that is not an off-the-shelf item, is unique to the system and without which the subwoofer - by the manufacturer’s own statement, does not perform "In perfect working condition". The manufacturer no longer makes the sub or the cable.

It also had a small tear in the surround, which I was not as concerned about, as I am able to repair it, but the fact of the matter is that tear was not mentioned in the listing and only shows up in his photo if you blow it up 200% and then only if you know to look for it. There is an anomaly in the image that is near the tear in the surround that suggests that someone was trying to retouch it out but did not know what they were doing and not only did a sloppy job, but missed the spot.

I am disputing the transaction. Would you consider the description fraudulent? If so, to what degree? Or am I to blame for not reading the fine print? Thank you to all beforehand for your responses.

So far, I’ve gotten one response: from mr_m273 posts05-20-2017 2:12pm
Yes. I would think so. Just for the missing cable alone. I’m quite sure this guy knew that sub needed the cable in question.
6b4bd886 1149 44b4 9602 7f1f77975542unreceivedogma
What kind of cable was it? It must be something that could be replicated.
B
It's a 25 foot 5 pin DIN to a mono male RCA.

It likely can be replicated, and though I am not electronically oriented, it might be something that I might even be able to do it myself, but I need a schematic.

It should not be my problem, however. It is for the seller to be transparent.
Fraud, is a strong statement.  Grounds for a return for full refund - absolutely.
How did the seller list it as working if he didn’t have the cable to use it? You should get a full refund. I would say that it is very fraudulent. BTW,after you spend the time and trouble to find that oddball cable what if the the POS still doesn't work?  
It is in ebay speak "item not as described" with the tear in the surround making it not "in perfect working condition"

My experience is that people with audio equipment that would not pass on Audiogon sell it on ebay.
Post removed 
Thanks for the reply. Yes, it should have been included, or at least mentioned it was absent.
Some sellers are dishonest, and some don't know better. Give him the benefit of the doubt. Contact him and Ebay, I am sure you will get your money back-Ebay is pretty buyer oriented.
You are right, I can't find a DIN to male mono rca cable.
Bob
gdnrbob,  When I call eBay, I mostly get someone in the Philippines whose command of English is not the best (and their command of eBay’s rules, for what they are worth, is...?). At first, I thought that the seller simply forgot to send it with everything else, but the seller’s attitude is hostile: he claims that there are 7 other listings of the item with none selling the cable, therefore it doesn’t need one (!) but I found at least one listing that does have it, which I would buy immediately but don’t want to until I clear this up this item.

ebm, due to the death of my father, I wasn’t paying enough attention and noticed only the other day that just 15% of this guy’s eBay sales are in audio, the rest are in...golf clubs. My bad I guess. Fallback is complain to paypal, and/or complain to the state AG consumer complaint division about both eBay as well as the seller?
File online complaint with e-bay and PayPal NOW!!!
Been there, done that, actually. eBay is fighting me, actually. I am waiting to hear from Paypal. I have not taken the AG step yet.
I am surprised, they give me concierge service.
All my calls are here in the US, and they went out of their way to help with a difficult seller.
Send me a PM, maybe I can get you the number.
Bob
I had a problem with an odd Genesis sub cable some years ago, after Genesis was sold - finally found the cable at a computer supply store, audio stores were baffled
Fraud isn't just on eBay.  Take a look at these cables I purchased in "9 out of 10 condition" here.  You can find my purchase in my user history here.  Never received a refund from the seller as I requested,  My negative feedback for the seller was removed.

  https://photos.app.goo.gl/hbSEqvymSiRFQGWW2  


Unfortunately,'dogma paypal is now owned by ebay. Hells Bells!
@sisyphus51 actually eBay spun out PayPal in 2015 and are actually moving away from using them as their primary payment partner
http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/01/technology/paypal-ebay-payments-split-adyen/index.html
folkfreak
You are right, and I stand corrected. Thank you! :-)
I agree 'dogma. They should give you a RMA and refund. Then you could purchase a 'complete' kit. :-)
I don’t buy/bid-on an item unless there are detailed photos showing all angles, and don’t assume any accessories come with it unless explicitly stated or shown in the photos. 

Unfortunately there are many listings, both here and on eBay, with profoundly bad photos.  I’m not sure how someone expects to sell a pair of speakers when there’s only one small photo, taken from far away, in poor lighting with the grill still attached (which, while as extreme example, is something I’ve seen). 

If if you’re asking someone to part with their money you should be willing to post photos showing all angles/sides of a product, and in the case of speakers and subwoofers remove the grills and show closeups of the drivers/surrounds. 
Like the OP, I too got tricked by an Ebay seller. Yes, the photo showed the damage, but it was not a clear photo, and it wasn't pointed out in the listing. The seller was a total a**hole, saying I didn't do my due diligence.
True, perhaps.
But whenever I sell an item, I make sure to detail as much of the dings and negatives as possible.
I wish the OP would let us know how things shook out.
Bob
Ebay is the home of pure garbage i would buy nothing or trust no one on ebay.Good luck though!!
Wow, this is an old thread from 7 to 12 months ago, suddenly getting picked up again.

I never paid for the item as I had bought it with Paypal credit and then withheld payment. I canceled my Paypal credit account and sent them a cease and desist letter.

I will try to provide more details later, but the short story is that the seller - from Colorado, he sells audio and golf clubs, go figure - said the item worked perfectly in 4 places in a 1,000+ word ad, he supplied links to positive reviews which was more reading, and buried in small print toward the end of the ad were the words “driver and servo only” which I didn’t even see until after I discovered on my own that the reason it may not be “performing perfectly” was that it needed a non-stock cord that he failed to provide, when I asked him if he forgot to pack it he said it didn’t need it but it most definitely did need it, and without it he could not claim that the unit “worked perfectly” because you would not even know if the servo was controlling the woofer. The guy lied and doubled down on the lie. And Ebay and Paypal took his side.

Paypal paid for the item, I plan to ship it to them since they now own it.

I bought another one from somebody closer to home. He lives in Baltimore (he designs cables for the Pentagon and says “don’t spend a lot of money on audio cable”, lol). It does “work perfectly”.
Good for you!
It is too bad that a few bad apples spoil the Ebay.
Unlike ebm, I have had only 2 bad experiences on Ebay in over 17 years (including the episode I described in a previous post).
Bob
What’s confusing about the experience is that the guy had a 100% rating on over 5000 transactions. He was clearly deceptive and dishonest. 
You did not look at the photos carefully really ? Big mistake. Your responsible is look at them VERY carefully BEFORE you buy anything on eBay or Audiogon or whatever. Basic rules, when you have bought an item you have responsible to filling the contract. Your responsible.
But now you can´t use the item because it´s missing a vital part ? Seller´s responsible. But if the seller accepts return, you can send it back. Basic rules. No worries.

PayPal is fool proof for all buyers because they PayPal doesn´t ask anything. But you actually never paid for the item ?? So you lost nothing, truly ? Why are complaining then ? I have read your sentences many times but I can´t make real sense of it. Well right, I try to see it this way: You have the item but not the vital part for it ? If this is the case it´s your right to sent the damn thing back.

Anyway, you should be lucky that if you had paid it using PayPal they did not freeze your account and kept YOUR funds for unknown period of time. Yah, they stab at your back and say nothing whatever happens. Silent faceless monster.
Like they did mine, nearly three thousand bucks. Just like that. And almost ruined my economy. Well, actually eBay sided me because they finally after my five weeks battle admitted that it was not my fault at all. Of course it wasn´t ´cos I never hided anything. The guy reported to eBay that he wanted museum quality (his words) of a 39 year old TT. But never complained it´s fuctionality, that´s after all the the important thing in all sales. LMAO

Arrogant and criminal buyer, funny from former communist country btw, tried to rip me off but when he tried to fool both eBay and PayPal, that was the icing of his cake : ) Well, this time I was lucky but they don´t fool me, never again.

PayPal has ruined both eBay and Audiogon. And made all honest sellers outlaws. PayPal is the biggest scam artist since communism. If eBay (and Audiogon) some day really gets rid of PayPal as mentioned here is victory to all, especially all honest sellers.
Fingers crossed, the world may still have hope.
And good luck for OP. Don´t get me wrong I´m on your side, just be more careful next time. Your story is way different than mine but we both are victims of circumstances. (In the end I wasn´t, actually).
Harold:

wow. What a rant. You sound similar to the seller I had to contend with. What do you have to hide?

I had examined the photos very closely. There was nothing that stood out as defective in the imagery. Even after the item arrived, it was real detective work to find the flaw in the image that was posted. You should not need to go into every Ebay purchase completely on the defensive. With honest sellers, you don’t. This guy had a 109% rating, I assumed he was trustworthy. It turned out that he was not, and unstable to boot.

Each person that I actually spoke to at Ebay or at Paypal was totally sympathetic to my position. And a few days after I spoke to them, I nevertheless got a negative response.

The only thing that saved this from a complete loss for me is is that I paid with Paypal credit on a 6 month no interest no payment plan. I closed the account and sent a cease and desist letter.

Hey, do you want a subwoofer? It “works perfectly!” Free! Just pay shipping!


I thought the sub was now "technically" owned by PayPal...lol.
If you bought an identical one which I think you said you had I would keep it for spares, you never know.
I have nothing to hide. That´s why I won both eBay AND PayPal crooks (BIG SMILE).
109 % score ? This is a joke right ? Now you say you did look at the pics carefully, but your initial words tell a difference. Typo ? No I don´t buy your story. Anymore. Sorry, your writing is quite confusing. First you say "they" were sympathetic to you, next you say you received negative response ? What is the matter ? You can´t take a simple advice from another victim of circumstances. I never was against you.

Unreceive Mr. Dogma ? Tells me something about your case. Alright. What a bore you are. And a rather morounic answer. Arrogant novices like you try to be so damn smart. Truly I tried to help you in your possible future cases. Because PayPal will screw you some day, and when you least expect it. They don´t care for you nor me, in the end of the day. They and eBay care only for themselves. Keep that in your mind.

Hello there. PayPal "technically" owns your little gadget ? They dare do.

You are starting to sound exactly as confused like my little customer from Chekc Republic. Funny guy. Eventually he left me a negative feedback because he simply went frustrated because I told him about the boring facts very clearly seen in my original ad, over and and over again. And once again... Boredom killed the troll LOL. Even before eBay was about to end the case. Really funny. eBay was forced to admit that it was not my fault at all. Of course I knew it all the time, that´s why I won them all.

Right after eBay´s verdict the nega fb was removed. Troll lost his game.

And everybody lived happily ever after.

Case closed. Don´t worry I don´t care for your future stories.

Good night : )


It is “technically” owned by Paypal. 

As a a practical matter, it is  probably gonna sit in our mech/boiler room for a very long time. 

Yes, I found another from a seller that lived a couple hours away. I drove over, auditioned it, he had a scope so I could see as well as hear how it was performing. It performed as designed and as described. It’s fine. 
Audiogon community:

Harold’s tone, syntax, grammatical style and emotional posture are suspiciously similar to the seller - a different name - that I had the unfortunate experience to contend with.

Yes, I consider the case closed, it’s been a year. I was surprised to see this thread picked up again. Maybe I should not have been. I have no intention of continuing this thread and getting entangled with another such exchange. If Harold wants to keep this thread alive, everyone should duly note.