By the time we break everything in, something is going to wear out. I vote for it sounding very good from day one or maybe a percieved change as the suspension of the cone drivers limber up.
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The Millenium tweeter does not sound bad/poorly upon arrival. I have the Linbrook Floorstanding Monitors, and they sounded quite nice from the start. I have about 300-400 hours on mine, and they still continue to improve. I've made some system changes, so I can't give you an overly accurate description of the nature of the changes.
Outside of playing the Ayre/Cardas CD, I didn't make any overt effort to break them in...just played music and listened. I like to enjoy the gradual evolution of component/cable break in.
200 hours with drifting response? Is that what Seas claim in their specifications? You may want to reconsider as a lack of stability is not really a good attribute in audio products. Most are designed for consistency and good stability under various conditions (climate etc.). I would check with Excel, I doubt there is a problem with this will respected driver.
Thanks for your various responses.I have one of those Ayre/Cardas tone producing CDs that seems to make a very subtle difference in my system if I play the last track every couple of months or so.Are you saying that repeatedly playing it would either help or shorten the break-in process?
B) Should one play the speakers at a low or moderate levels when breaking them in?
Ummm, I'm a little confused as to what in a tweeter would take 200 hours. I can understand (and have experienced) woofers taking quite a bit of time to break in.
However, here's a good way to break in the entire speaker:
Face them toward each other a few inches apart and wire one speaker out of phase. Play a burn-in CD or one with wide dynamic range and frequency response and set the player on "Repeat". Set the volume level moderately high and then cover the outsides of the speakers with blankets and stuff to reduce the sound. Let them run however long you like.
I only play the Cardas/Ayre CD about once a month. But, as far as "breaking in" goes, I didn't do anything special. I simply listened to music at whatever level is appropriate for my mood, time of day, material, etc. I don't know if the Millenium is being broken in, or not. Like anything electronic, the speaker has wire and other parts in the crossover and internal cabling...these do "break in". Just set the speakers up and enjoy...
I just posted some initial impressions regarding the Tyler Lin sig mons that arrived today & will take a couple of weeks to break in from everything I have read to date. There is one thing that I forgot to mention as part of my initial impressions. I was my disappointed with the model three stands .I unpacked them dutifully, filled them with play sand, & then was very dismayed when I realized how wobbly & unsteady these are (the model three which are the narrower ones)when compared to a well designed metal stand .I may have to invest in a good set of stands as I can not possibly see how one could get a optimal bass response or imaging out of a speaker that would move this much albeit I realize these are micro movements. I am given to understand that it is these minute movements that muddy the bass and blur the imaging.
wonder why during my conversations with Ty,he did not mention this.My problem is I live in Canada & sending things back & forth across the border is expensive. I may contact him on this one ..perhaps the stand is OK in the end. The top of the stand exactly fits the size of the sigs meaning it was obviously designed to go with this speaker. I have filled the stand with play sand so in terrns of sheer weight(mass) ,I would think despite the ability to rock the stand with my hands that it would be hard to get any movement from the speaker due to the movement of the drivers. The rubber feet seem to do a great job of coupling the speaker to the stand .
I do not know a lot about what a good stand should do, because to date I have always used floorstanders & when I was moonlighting in the retail end back in the 80s & early 90s we always sold beefy target stands that in those days were double spiked which of course created a base that was extremely rigid. It is hard to believe Ty,would go to all the trouble of using extremely high quality drivers ,crossovers & the beefiest cabinets that I have ever seen & then put them on a stand that was subpar.
I may yet write to him on this one, however if others would weigh in on thier experience first, I would appreciate the opinion of other owners on this one .I am also interested in what changes top to bottom they experienced as the speakers broke in.
PS I see my initial comparison between the Silverline SR-17v3 & the sigs somehow did do not get recoded on the form.I think that I will wait until they break in which should take about 8 days given I have them playing a low level through my tuner at night & generally have CDs going most of the day.So far the 17 would seem to have more definition & naturalness(harmonic rightness) in the midrange.The sigs would seem to be smoother & slightly less sibilant(thankGod) at the seeming expense of detail & definition.It would seem however that my sibilance issues are either a function of sound sort of AC power issue including grounding issues and/or just the way CDs are recoded.
Time will tell because even today they sound more dynamic & the tweeter a little more present which may in the end create better midrange detail & transparency. As far as naturalness (which is the only way I can describe it)the Dynaudio drivers are hard to beat since they were to date much better, midrange wise, than even my beloved Quad ELS which I lived with for longer then any other speaker I ever owned.
So there is a start for our friend who was interested in a comparison between the two speakers.
Both stands are well designed, but the Model 1's are a bit more stout. While the brass cones are nice, they won't pierce the carpet as well as I prefer. You may want to consider a true spike as a replacement. If they are coupling well to your floor, you may want to check to be sure that they are level.
I have the same/similar cones on the bottom of my Linbrook Floorstanding monitors. I haven't decided whether I'm going to replace the carpet or install hardwoods, so I haven't made a move as of yet. At some point, I may order a set of Sound Anchor bases for them if I go with carpet. If I go with hardwoods, I'll get some discs for the cones.
So I gather I am mainly OK with the threes despite the whole system being a little flexible. I would think the weight of the system plus the dampening effect of MDF & sand would help. The brass feet seem to level up fairly well on my hardwood with no need for adjustment am not sure the speaker squares up with the floor which is something I have to check.My room is a little on the bright side and I like the smoothness of the speaker especially at low to moderate levels. There is just too much happening reflection wise to play them loud without getting into a nasty bright mash of sound am a bachelor so perhaps it is time to invest in some acoustical materials. I just love being able to place my 60 Lbs tube amp on the floor now that I am single ..LOL..
I am still breaking in my Lin sig mons.& have abot 80 hours on them.Does one need to use modearte or even loud levels to do this during the 200 hour break in or can this be done a fairly low volumes.I kave about 70% at low volume & 30% moderate to higher(not super loud levels)
Does the whole 200 hours have to be at reasonable loud levels?A better way to put this would be how long, at what levels do I need to play them at,to effect breakend.So far I only hear minor changes to the size of the sound field & the efficiency with the HF still quite rolled off.Do I need to play them louder to get the tweeter detail up and in generally to open the HF up.
I have never considered the speakers to be "rolled off" at all. They are a highly resolving speaker capable of reproducing what the rest of my system has going on, and allow me to hear quite accurately the difference/s in a system change. The better a speaker system is, the more obvious system limitations and shortcomings become. Of course, the obvious is also true...a good speaker will also allow a good overall system to shine through.
I think I will just wait until I have a good 300 hours on them prior to commenting (much of the time to date is at lower levels ).I also have a Portal Panache on the way & the suspicion my tube amp may need retubing so I had best wait until I have some knowns prior to commenting more. The speakers are changing with each passing day & sound smoother & less congested in the lower mids today. I am sure that I will enjoy these speakers once they are broken in properly & a amp that I am sure is functioning properly is hooked up to them .I did ask earlier whether playing the speakers at a louder level during pure break in time might speed up the tweeter break in a little,so I would be interested in your thoughts on that.
The other issue is around the impedance taps on the amp.I did switch after a couple of hours of listening to the 4 ohm taps and thought they sounded better there.. however many have reported that their 4ohm speakers sounded better on the 8 ohm taps on their tube amps. There is rather a cumbersome means by which these wires are changed however I think that I will try them on the 8 ohm hook up again as this HF roll off is curious given the reputation of the tweeter.
Thanks for replying,
The Linbrook monitors are rated at 4 ohms, I believe. My Linbrook floorstanding monitors are rated at 8 ohms, but seem to sound their best hooked up to the 4 ohm taps of my VT-100. Different speaker and amp, so probably not very helpful for your situation, Bill. Experimentation is probably the key here.
I can't help you with the volume level-break in issue, as I didn't make a conscious effort to do anything special to "break them in". I just listen to them and enjoy the evolution. Once you get your system all set, you'll enjoy the Linbrook's all the more.
My pair of Linbrook Monitor Signatures needed about 200 hours of high-ish playing levels to optimize, after which any additional changes were almost inconsequential. The Millenium tweeter is the most natural sounding dome-type tweeter I've found, so good, in fact, that I sought them out for subsequent purchases and now run two sets of speakers with them in two systems. Yes, they do roll off slightly but not at the expense of air, transient snap, and fineness of detail. Importantly, nor do they ever induce listener fatigue. The fact that they don't draw attention to themselves, yet pass all of the highest frequencies through, is too rarely achieved.
If you're having trouble getting in the hours you might try setting them up as monitors for your TV for a while...all depending on which media gives them the most play time in your home.
The used sig mons I purchased from Tyler needed to have new drivers and crossovers install .You recall I had some issues with over one being brighter & then some graininess overall .I discovered after blaming my tube amp that one crossover component may have failed making one speaker seem more brighter than the other then after a few days the system became raspy when turned up to moderate volumes which I think was one of the millennium tweeters being over driven as the crossover element became worse.The raspy desertion was quite noticeable & I sent the speaker back to Ty who was more than ready to fix it & send it back .great guy.
In the interim I have noticed that although the other speaker sounded reasonably good that I twas a little on the hard side when pushed a tad and I am hoping that since he replaced everything that I did not get a group of bad crossover caps or something like that. It is hard to tell because by driving only one speaker, I may be overdriving it a bit to get the volume which is about half due to there only being one speaker.Hopefully it is just a case of driving the one speaker a little too hard & that when there are two I need only drive them at the 11AM not the 1 PM position to get a decent sound pressure level with the Portal..The whole system has sounded a but hard ,grainy in the mids right from the start & I queried Tyler(Mr. Patience) as to whether there may be mutiple issues with this new batch of crossovers however he maintains everything sounded good prior to leaving his plant as he played them for 24 hours so I need to take him at his word since given his stellar reputation & eagerness to help.If he thinks the other speaker is OK than it is OK .It is hard to tell anything I have found historically from listening to one speaker. & I have to trust a guy like Ty.
One online magazine(Stereo Times) reported that the sig mons were a liitle congested at higher volumes so I may have to live with moderate volumes with these. I have two amps a RA Tempest II tube integrated & a 100wps Portal Panache that kicks out 200 into 4 ogms both in good working condition now & my Creek CD50 MK II is quite new having all the most recent updates & sounded good with the RA & the Silverline 17V3.
Have others found?
A) the tweeter in the sigs to be on the fragile side perhaps even sounding a little hard if pushed & B) any fragility in these drivers including the crossover?. I would rather play them at moderate volumes & have them undamaged (even if very slightly) for 5 years rather than be subtly ruining the tweeter and/or crossovers by playing them a tad too loud since most of my music I play at low to moderate levels.
Any comments along these lines would be apppreciated.It is obvious that these drivers & crossovers are subject to damage on one level given Ty had to replace everything including the crossovers on this trade in pair .notwithstanding gross abuse of course.
I lived with the original Quad ELS for many years so I know what it is like to live with speakers with limited spl before they start to fall apart. The Quads were always good right up to about 90 Db in a reasonable sized room but as soon as you hit 91 you were in trouble & always needed to back off..I really hope I end up with a viable pair after all the time & expense I have spent putting this system together.
Again,your comments would be appreciated.