Searching for the most "accurate" speaker (below 15K)


I’m looking for the most accurate and resolving speakers (budget is <= 15K). Paradigm Persona 3F, Kef Reference 3 or Focal Sopra 2 are some of the options I can think of. Any opinions on how these compare? Should I had other options to this shortlist? The amplifier is the (absolutely extraordinary) Nagra Classic AMP.

Thanks! :)
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Showing 8 responses by audiotroy

Vermeer we are a dealer for many speakers that you mentioned in your post including the Paradigm, KEF, ATC, as well as Dali, Gradient, Cabasse. We don;’t sell the Focals but lets see if this give you some guidance.

If by what you mean accuracy is clarity then the KEF, or Persona’s are really your best choice out of what you mentioned.

We have the KEF Blades, and the Persona 9H in the same room, so we are pretty knowledgable about both brands.

The KEF Reference 3 are very clean, dynamic speakers which throw a big soundstage and have tight clean bass, their drivers are world class and the speaker sounds very coherent.

The Personas have an edge over the KEF’s in their Beryilium drivers are even clearer, and faster with more air then the KEFs.

Another area where the Personas are truly amazing, is image holography.

The Personas throw one of the most realistic images you will ever hear they are spooky. in terms of how much depth and width you can get from them.

ATC’s drivers are world class and they do have a natural midrange, a super tight midbass and great dynamics, and a wide soundstage, however, the Paradigm Personas just offer more resolution and gradiations in low level detail that if you use great components will reward you with some remarkable sound.

As per Quads I owned them, not even close in terms of accuracy, and with all planers you get diapole cancillation effect meaning the front wave is out of phase with the back wave. This creates truncated dynamics and compression when played at realistic volume levels.

Harbeths are way more colored than ATC, if you look at the two companies their philsophies are totally different, ATC uses an inert cabinet, Harbeths are tuned to ring musically to the sonic input, this makes the Harbeths appear very musical but if you look at most of the studios that use ATC you will find that most of the top rock and pop recodings over the last 40 years were all mastered or mixed on ATC.

I am not trying to denegrate Harbeth, they have a lovely sound, but that sound is not as accurate as an ATC.

Some people complain ATC is bright they are hardly bright, extremely neutral and very engaging.

So if you are looking for speed, articulation, 3d imaging, very tight  bass, and the ability to play loud, the Personas will be hard to beat.

Now to the Focals, the new Sopras are way better than most of the Focal speakers The new wave guided tweeter is better integrated with the Focal composite midrange, the speakers for the first time throw a much more focused sound stage.

Where they differ is the magical 7 inch pure Beryilium midrange, and the pure Beryilium tweeter, this means the speaker sounds very coherent, in the case of the Focal’s the composite midrange driver has a warmer more colored sound, with less of that 100% seemless quality of the Personas.

Their blend of clarity and punchiness makes them very fun to listen to speakers and are a bit more forgiving then the Paradigms.

The Paradigms are in our opinion one of the most remarkable speakers to be introduced in the last 10 years, with that being said you must be careful with system matching as the speakers have literally no coloration, and for many listeners that can be too much of a good thing.

I would need to know more about your system to guide you.

Please feel free to PM our store and we will be happy to offer you some additional guidance. I will say honestly you could not go wrong with any of these choices, they are all terrific.

The Personas in our opinion are the most life like but also the trickiest to get right.

Dave onwer,
Audio Doctor NJ
Cswood, believe it or not the Polk LSim 707 is a nice sounding speaker it is not exceptional but does a lot of things well for the money. We got a pair in trade and I was actually suprised how musical they are.

Martykl, the Beryilium drivers just have a clarity that brings in little details like breaths, and cimbals, and macro details that are just masked in most other speakers. 

The best drivers we ever heard are the Diamond drivers from Acution which have  a smoothness with detail that is excpetional the next best drivers are the Persona drivers, which create this immense soundstage with detail that is just remarkable, these speakers do require careful matching of ancellories of they can be a bit too forrward for some tastes.

ATC are very smooth if they are sounding bright than it is something in your system possibly cables, source, or your electronics. 

We show the ATC SCM 11, and the SCM 19 we have also had a pair of the 40s which sound like a bigger version of the 40 and in all of our setups the sound is great. 

We show them on Naim alot and the match is fantastic,  with Wireworld Silver Eclipse speaker cables which has both great detail and has great bass heft, we have compared these cables to both AQ and Nordost cables and the Wireworld's were far better at the same price. 

Dave owner 
Audio Doctor NJ






Grgr4blu, your comments are based on hearing them at one show, which dealer did you hear them at and what were they using? Your negative bias against the Personas is more based on your issues with us.

The Personas now have three outstanding reviews, Tone Audio, TAS, and Soundstage, and so far not one of these noted reviewers said the speakers are too bright, they are howerver, extremely revealing so if this other dealer was not using the right stuff of course you would not be blown away. Our setup  at the New York audio show was not bright at all, we played loud and most people raved over the sound. 

As per ATC vs Personas we sell both and they both are great but totally different and by the way Vermeer lives in Europe so we are not going to be selling him anything!

Vermeer has heard the speakers and loves them, they will also work in a small room with the 3f.  

Audioman58 haven't heard those Martin Logans, all the others in the past sounded great in some ways, but had issues. No speaker is perfect. 

The large soundstage of the ML is great, I have yet to hear a set of any panels image the way a good set of dynamics speakers do, the Wilsons, Paradigms, and Rockports all create an image that can be very life like
most panels produce an image which is too large without the image specifitiy that that the best dynamic speakers do.




Grgr4blu i am sure you are the expert on accuracy in all matters of life.

Oh by the way you are hijacking the thread.


Grgr4blu you are hijacking a Paradigm thread where several people have reported the speakers to be amazing when set up correctly you are adding nothing as ususal. 

Many people find you to be inappropriate in your negativity and your continued attacks against our store and our products make you look like you have an axe to grind.


Vermeer, thanks for the kind words and support.

Your room is small but it is not that small. As long as you look at direct radiating loudspeakers with bass in the 40-30hz range you will be fine.

Also depending on electronics you can avail yourself with units from Micromega M100 or M150 hat sound fantastic on the Personas and also have room correction. 

Our smaller playback room is 18 feet long by 14 wide and the Persona 3F sound fantastic in that size room.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ


Vermeer, right on!

We just over the weekend setup a set of the Persona 9H with the T+A PA 3000 HV integrated amplifier.

Untreated room, starter interconnects, no power conditioning, no room tuning a cheapier Oppo player and you know what??

Still freaking amazingly real. The gentleman is a piano player with an classic Steinway, we sat there and compared the live sound of the Steinway with the same track on the Personas. and the Persona sounded increadibily lifelike so much so it was truly a testament to who brilliant a job the Paradigm engineers did on this series of loudspeakers.

Vermeer if you are ever in the states New York area, we would love to have you in for a visit our setup is among the best setups of the Persona’s anyone can hear and life like it is.

Congradulations and burn in the speakers well, they will get even better, also get a set of the Isoactoustics Gaia footers for a remarkable improvment that will take up the speakers by a good 15-20%.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
Prof

That was a nice synopsis of what you experienced. 

The issue with the Persona's and I would add Radiho, and Focals is that these remarkably high resolution loudspeakers do not have as much coloration as many other loudspeakers and so you must be very careful of finding the right matching gear.

In our shop we show the Persona 9H with the fantastic T+A HV Series of electronics and we demo with three different state of the art digital sources.

When we showed them at the New York Audio show we used the T+A reference PDP 3000 which sounded great, however, in our shop we also have the Light Harmonic Davinci and the Aqua Hifi Forumula  Dac with a Baestis music server.

The Light Harmonic brings a bit more warmth and life which it should it is a $35k Dac but the point is the system goes from really good sounding to absolutely amazing, The bit of extra midrange magic just adds the right touch of texture and boy the speakers sound is elevated accordingly.

So what we have been preaching is that when you have speakers with this kind of clarity, speed, and lack of colortion you must add some flavoring to the mix or the sound can be too netural which to some listeners is going to be too cool or analytical. 

You can see the same kinds of issues with the Magico guy who is going from a Rethem wideband driver to the Magicos in his thread and was first driven out of the room as he is going from a polite top end to a Beryilium tweeter which doesn't hold anything back. 

This is the age old battle of resolution vs musicality and those in the easy to get right camp ie Harbeth, Vandersteen, Quads, Rethem, Legacy, Sonus Faber etc vs the high resolution camp Magico, Radiho, Persona etc

Prof there were many people who hated the Thiels I used to sell them because they were too forward for many listeners. 

I used a Bat or Preamp with a Vac PA 100/100 with the Thiels and the match made the Thiels come alive with the right amount of tone color hence this is why you love the CJ/Thiel combo.

What was the dealer using with the Personas when you heard them?

Dave owner
Audio Doctor NJ