Schumann Resonator

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorphins

Do audiophiles have these?  

Some people here are still pretty grumpy. Perhaps it’s time to try a different resonance frequency?  The old one ain’t working. 

My music already floats.  Must be a hidden Schumann I don’t know about built in somewhere.  

It’s The People’s Front of Audiogon versus The Audiogon People’s Front.

Factions.  Very 14th century!

Seriously anybody interested send me your name in plex and I will share that in my music library with you to stream via Plex app (runs on browser, smartphones, tablets, streamers like Roku/Amazon...etc.

Namaste!  :-)

We are in big trouble if we allow conspiracy theories to take precedence over science and medicine. May be in evitable. The genie is out of the bottle with the Internet. People will believe anything if enough people repeat it....need not have any factual basis, and there is no capacity to verify any of it.

Some sources can at least be held accountable and verified if important enough.

Its a real mess...

On that note, time to listen to some nice relaxing music..;.

@maghister yes the bells like gongs are a big sonic challenge and a system must be good to reproduce them. Try it on a cheap speaker and all you get is a bunch of distortion.

I have the flac files. Would be happy to share somehow if interested. I can share and stream to others via Plex app but that does require an account with plex albeit a free one.

THis is the CD I ripped from:

Tibetan Bowl Sound Healing cd Diane Mandle Brand New Sealed Digipak | eBay

I can stream it to you via Plex for less than cost of Schumann Generator.....free....and I can guarantee you will hear something.

I have a very good recording of Tibetian Bells. Might make a good test recording for use with Schumann Generators! Could be lethal peace and tranquility together!

Hmmm well I am also big on yoga and being of sound mind and body.

Isn’t "Om" a sort of Schumann Resonance that anyone can generate?

OM: What Does It Mean & Why Do We Chant It? (mindbodygreen.com)

..oh and I forgot the most important thing: we are both big time Groucho and Marx Brothers fans!

The secret word today is: "resonance"... now beat it bird!

Oh no now I no longer know what to do for sure!

Disclaimer: I may be biased.  I could even be very biased.....but probably not.

There are many things I like about mahgister.

Ones that come to mind:

1) he readily admits when he makes a mistake or give the wrong impression, something many of us could be way better at including myself

2) he does it his way which is most unique and not like most...a very interesting approach...a different perspective

3) he is not at all close minded about things. Tolerant perhaps almost to a fault? If that is possible.

4) He is typically polite and has good manners, and apologizes when not. A bit excitable at times due to passion on the topic most likely, but also humble.

5) HE seems very well read and can look at things from various perspectives as a result.

That’s a very sound foundation from which to operate. None of us are perfect and can find ways to do things better if we really want to.

I think we would get along famously in person.....certainly lots of things to talk about..

I will report back here when I read something that is actually constructive or useful relating to the specific topic at hand. It ain’t happening. Half baked theories don’t cut it. Bye!

maghister,

Someone proposed it be measured.

That is how to do it.

You emotions are getting the best of you. You seem to take any questions about these things as a personal attack. You know they are not. Merely discussion to get to the facts....ie keep it real. Also light, if possible. Nothing more valuable than that. That is my only goal. If you find that threatening, then look in the mirror for the cause my friend. No need to justify yourself. We all do things our own way and we hear what we hear.

Regarding measurement Schumann Resonance, according to Wikipedia article on "Schumann Resonance":

" Measurements[edit]

Today Schumann resonances are recorded at many separate research stations around the world. The sensors used to measure Schumann resonances typically consist of two horizontal magnetic inductive coils for measuring the north-south and east-west components of the magnetic field, and a vertical electric dipole antenna for measuring the vertical component of the electric field. A typical passband of the instruments is 3–100 Hz. The Schumann resonance electric field amplitude (~300 microvolts per meter) is much smaller than the static fair-weather electric field (~150 V/m) in the atmosphere. Similarly, the amplitude of the Schumann resonance magnetic field (~1 picotesla) is many orders of magnitude smaller than the Earth's magnetic field (~30–50 microteslas).[25] Specialized receivers and antennas are needed to detect and record Schumann resonances. The electric component is commonly measured with a ball antenna, suggested by Ogawa et al., in 1966,[26] connected to a high-impedance amplifier. The magnetic induction coils typically consist of tens- to hundreds-of-thousands of turns of wire wound around a core of very high magnetic permeability."

So good luck trying this at home folks.....

@sokogear Get a dB meter.
Play pink noise through your system at a level to read at about -50 or -60 dB. Use a fixed position for your meter. Turn on the Schumann device.
Read the meter, It should increase by a 1/4 to a 1/2 dB. .
A small change but still significant. Any fractional dB increase is still a lot of energy.

I was done with this topic for now but can’t let incorrect information go:

No, this can’t be assuming the device is emitting em radiation at that frequency ( not sound) it will NOT show on a sound meter. You would need a sensing device sensitive to that wavelength/frequency in the EMR spectrum (se link I provided above) to detect that. Not a sound/db meter.

This argument is all over the place. One minute its effect of EM radiation from devices like this and transformers on electronic circuits, next its the same device producing sound not EMR that you will detect on a sound meter.

I do.

There is no scientific explanation that connects the dots. So its a leap of faith.

Rationalizations produce theories that may or may not be true.

Frog, I’m neither agreeing or disagreeing. Just discussing and trying to understand how things work and this one is not adding up so far from what I read.

It happens but that is what Engineers do.

I’m getting closer to punting on this one (again) based on what I read but the jury is still out. If I didn’t already have to pry myself away from listening to my hifi for hours on end perhaps I might be more motivated to take a leap of faith. I’ve read and learned more about Schumann Resonance, which seems to be a scientifically established real phenomenon, what it is, and what people claim it can do. So that’s all a good thing. Thank you OP for bringing up the topic.

Yes good idea frogman. Let’s censure everything we disagree with or do not like.  That will get us far. 

I use mu-metal foil to shield my low level phono step up transformer from noise from nearby HVAC equipment.   Nothing special there, transformers emit em radiation that can induct undesirable noise into electric circuits.   That's basic electronics.

Thing is  I read that the theory behind benefits of Schumann is pretty much entirely based on  its effects on humans as part of the earth's environment.   Nothing about its effects on electric circuits or that being a good thing.

Just saying.  IT's an interesting theory, but again not a hard one to test and support or not.   Like a transformer, close unshielded proximity to an electric circuit should have a greater effect than farther away , and there is always some range limit involved.

Well, that doesn’t sell me but thanks for answering the question. Cheers!

Yes thanks for that we know people are free to buy whatever they want.


Imagine if NASA relied on incomplete data or hearsay to land that rover rather than understanding every detail of what was involved to make it work to the nth degree.

I know people are not NASA. But some are engineers or technical people or scientists who actually care about how and why things work including their hifis and use that to make informed decisions and others benefit from that. That includes me.

It’s all good. Buy away! If some one can tell me the right way to use the device rather than leave it to chance, hearsay or theory, I might even give it a go.

You didn’t answer my question.

 " So you are saying placing the device closer to your amp produces better sound? Is that how it works?"

No argument there. Just clarifying that it is not the sound waves themselves that can be affected...only the electric signal used to create them...or the person listening.  Both are possible and not mutually exclusive.

If you muck with the electric circuit, anything is possible...good or bad...

So you are saying placing the device closer to your amp produces better sound? Is that how it works?

Yes and amp designers go to great length to minimize or totally eliminate that particular effect on the electric circuit.

Its an interesting theory about how the device works its magic. First time I heard it. Not hard to test. Proximity of the device to the amp should produce better sound.

Its a small inexpensive device. What is it’s range?

If it works that way you should let the vender know if not already in the manual so they can inform all users how to best apply their product.

Ok well then by that logic the best place for the device is on or close to your amp. Is that in the instructions? Please try it and report the results.

Just to keep the facts straight,  the magnet does NOT ineract with the sound.   It interacts with the electric circuit in the amp which in that case is likely to have a detrimental effect on the sound if audible.

@bemused

The problem with your theory is the device is emitting an EM wave not a sound wave. How can that interact with sound?  There is definitely nothing to hear in an em wave. Two different things. Does the light you see or long wavelength radio waves emitted affect the sound?  

The answer if there is one seems to be that if an em wave interacts with anything to produce an effect either positive or negative it is the person and not the sound waves.

That is at least the prime theory of how Schumann frequency has an effect on humans and there is little in the literature I can find to firmly support even that outside of marketing material.

Maybe we expert audiophiles here with the golden ears can solve this problem in physics and strike up a big win for all....

It’s a Yiddish word (  קיביץ ) actually that translates roughly to “speak informally”.

@oldhvymec it’s EM radiation at that frequency/wavelength, not sound. Nothing to hear and outside the frequency range your eyes can detect so you will never see it either.

https://sites.google.com/a/coe.edu/principles-of-structural-chemistry/relationship-between-light-and...

7.83 Hz has a wavelength of about 38,000 kilometers which is WAAAY off to the right in this chart,  well past EM  wavelength of radio waves. 

The product info on Amazon is interesting. Reads like written in broken English. It says it does not emit sound. That would leave EMR as what is emitted by default. That is what the earths Schumann resonance is based on. So who knows? It’s a mystery. Try it and see if one must. It’s a good kibbutz that does not cost much at least.

@dekay

Schumann frequency is apparently a popular marketing concept for herbal medicine but I am not able to find anything to substantiate that as a valid thing. The most common conclusion appears to be that it is merely a marketing ploy when it comes to selling health products.

Scratch what I said above about the phase of the resonator interacting with the earths natural Schumann resonance. That refers to a EMR frequency. Sound also has frequency and wavelength but is a different kind of wave (sound) altogether. I’m assuming these devices emit sound waves at the Schumann frequency not electro magnetic radiation EMR. 
In  either case however  the device is the source of whatever it is that it may emit so one would expect the results to vary significantly with distance from transmitter ie the device to the sensor ie the brain and ears.  

Try at different distances from your listening location since the advertised effect is on the brain. 

Placebo effect forget it! it is too easy to invoke that about ANYTHING someone dont want to experiment with or believe...

Placebo effect is a real thing. Disqualifying it does one’s argument no good.

maghister, you are taking this much too personally IMHO. You may be right...I may be crazy...( But it just may be a lunatic you’re looking for)...

ANyone can see or hear anything at anytime. It happens all the time. Discounting the possibilities serves nobody. Your generators may work great for you. The next guy not so much. Check out Amazon reviews for a sample.

ALso if you can’t hear it how do you know if it is working properly or even if it breaks? Nothing lasts forever.

Just saying. I know you are too open minded to be close minded- Zeppo Marx.

My only other reservation about these devices is that usually a lot of power is required to produce SPLs at a low frequency.   Think powered subwoofer that goes down to 20hz, 10-15 max.   

How do these little inexpensive devices achieve that?   Class D amplification? 

Inquiring minds want to know.   Don't know how they pull that off unless very low SPLs are sufficient to achieve the desired effect.   Or placebo effect?   Both possible.   I'll leave it to others to figure out which and let me know.

I’ll buy that with the reservation that these devices also surely are not sophisticated enough to generate controlled or specifically designed dither to achieve the desired effect.   That generally would require digital processing, not analog.  Whatever is generated off frequency happens by other means...random or not....

The devil is in the details. Resonance frequencies never exist alone or at one single frequency only.

Maybe this is a case where a cheap design in fact achieves the desired purpose.

If you actually start hearing something, THEN there might be a real problem......

Anyway interesting discussion. No hatred involved.

Hmm well if the design intent is to produce a certain frequency but device cannot do that cleanly , then one would hope the noise or distortion it introduces in addition were randomized.

IS that what these devices claim or are we just speculating? I have no clue.

Who makes these things? Crosley?

Just kidding....testing maghisters sense of humor today.....

In nature, from what I read, it sounds like echoes of the Shumann resonance frequency would be somewhat randomized, like echoes one hears of thunder after a strike.

When our kids were little, we ran white noise generators at night to help them sleep better. No resonance but random generated audible white noise (like dither). Worked like a charm! Those devices have been around for quite a while.

Seems like a suitable sound meter that was sensitive in the Schumann frequency range could help put a lot of questions to rest.  If its there, it can be measured for sure.

Why are so many members obsessed with HOW it works?

There is always a reason why things work the way they do.

Magic may be reason enough for many but not all. Different strokes....

Even more often, good marketing alone may be enough.  Where would high end audio be without that?

Maghister if the devices are introducing white noise or some other form of random noise, that is a totally different thing than the Schumann resonance that they are banking on. The two could certainly work in combo, but are still two different things.

FWIW if any compensation I too would not have voted GK off the island at least based on what he posted.  I have always been against censorship.   Don't know why he got removed but chances are he probably deserved it because he was here for a number of years before apparently getting the axe.   IMHO, his posts hurt this site's credibility in many ways but he was always primed to defend esoteric tweaks so I'm sure there was some benefit there to someone.   Regardless, I wish him well in his new endeavors.

Maghister thing is dithering typically means introduction of random patterns as a way to simulate greater detail.

Schumann as I understand it is a resonance...not a random pattern.

So the two would seem to be totally different.

I developed digital imaging systems in a past life for use by NASA and others, including dithering algorithms, so I do know a bit about that.

I don’t see anything in what I read about Schumann Resonance that would relate to dither.

Just saying....

I am not discounting that Schumann resonance may have some positive effect on what one hears if done properly. I read it is believed to have some impact on the brain so that could account for people hearing things differently.

If its the same frequency and not opposite phase then you could be supplementing it to some extent. Or similarly cancelling it to some extent if out of phase How much either way could vary widely depending on device and relative phase.   A phase adjustment similar to that found on better subwoofers might be a useful feature.

maghister read up on dither and you will see why that is totally different than Schumann resonance.

There is nothing hateful about seeking facts and truths. Geofkait spent his entire career here obfuscating and obstructing. That was the game he liked to play at expense of others. Not to mention the outright name calling and other miscreant acts like wishing cancer on people. As a seeker of truth as I believe you to be you should decry obfuscation not condone it as just another way of doing things that is somehow OK. It is destructive not constructive behavior and I know you know the difference.

Some things matter. Cheers!

Has nothing to do with dithering. Read up on dithering and you will see why.
But it sounds good for a totally baseless explanation. 

Gk was kinda like the pied piper of audiogon. That auspicious title is now totally up for grabs.