Schroeder vs. Triplanar VII Sonic Differences

Aoliviero,

Cello, Teres, Thom Mackris and I have offered detailed sonic comparisons of these arms several times. A search should turn up those posts.

You asked some shrewd questions, which indicate you've already got a handle on the key differences.

Will a Schroeder deliver dynamics, punch, bass suited to Rock music?

Yes, absolutely. Frank Schroeder enjoys leading edge electronica. If his arm didn't rock he'd fix it.

But a TriPlanar VII will do it slightly better.

Will a Triplanar deliver natural, timbral accuracy?

You'd better believe it, at least with a top level ZYX. I'm spinning Solti's 'Siegfried' as I type, and Fafnir sounds as real as any dragon I've ever spoken with!

But a Schroeder Ref will do it slightly better.

Are both these arms suited to the same music?

Yes, depending on the cartridge.

IMO neither arm is "better" than the other. They are more alike than different, and either one's small differences could be preferred by certain listeners or in certain systems. Do you prefer Art or Science?

***
Like Diamond007, I'm distressed by the poor support from the current owner/builder of Herb Papier's wonderful arm. Improvements suggested by multiple owners are ignored. QC and consistency often fall well below standard for a product at this price point. Ship dates are missed. Communications from both dealers and owners go unanswered.

Two years ago I encouraged Mehran to carry the TriPlanar, thanks to its wonderful synergy with all the top ZYX cartridges. But if Tri-Mai doesn't get his act together he could destroy one of the finest products in the history of audio. Anyone interested should buy one before that happens. Assuming you get a fully working copy it could be the last arm you'll ever want or need.

Cello once asked Paul and me if we'd take a Schroeder Reference for our TriPlanar VII in a straight trade. We both agreed that we wouldn't. It's truly that good.

Doug

Rwd,

The Ref's VTA/SRA adjustment is on the fly.

It is less convenient to use than a TriPlanar or JMW because it requires two small hex wrenches, one to loosen the set screw and one to turn the adjusting screw. No knobs.

It is less repeatable than a TriPlanar because there's no scale of any sort.

Once a Ref is set up it will stay set up, but that doesn't mean you can just "set and forget". The cartridges likely to be paired with these arms are remarkably responsive to small adjustments. To maintain optimum performance requires frequent fine-tuning of VTF. Adjustment of VTA/SRA for every record, or at least different thicknesses. This will be equally true with a Reference, a TriPlanar or any other top arm, depending on the preferences of the user of course.

Dan (or anyone north/east of NYC),

If you're passing through central CT, please consider paying us a visit. We're two minutes off I-91 and ten minutes from I-84.

We offer qualified visitors a chance to try these playtoys:
- TriPlanar VII
- Teres 320
- UNIverse
- Nick Doshi custom modded amp
- Nick Doshi custom MC/MM/line preamp
- a newly-opened bottle of Glenmorangie (better hurry!)

Cheers,
Doug

SirSpeedy,

What, me nice? I just need to put faces to names. That may help if I need some handy insults, and of course you're invited too! Just keep the cheap wine in your paper bag and no one will know.

The system's almost ready for company. I just sourced a roll of mylar to replace the TT belt I mangled the other day. (Moron!)

Our amp is ready for pickup after Nick's latest upgrade. He says, "last upgrade". Hah! It's a great mod, but it takes several hundred hours (at least) to reach its full potential. With luck we'll be in reasonable form by the end of the week.

I hope so. Swampwalker and Jyprez may be dropping by for a preamp party. It wouldn't do to play them CD's using half an amplifier.

Those of you in north/central NJ are close to Nick Doshi, who built my amp and preamp. He's one of the most talented equipment designer/builders I ever expect to know. (Nick:Doug::Jose:Raul) I'm driving down tomorrow night to pick up the amp, but won't have time to stop by and annoy anyone else. :-(

Our standing invitation is open to SirFrog, Rwd or anyone else from the Soprano's State. I'd love to actually meet you guys. Heck, SirScorpion can check my antiskating any time he wants to.

Unfortunately I can't commit to VTV or any out of town event. I'm on active job search and have several promising interviews coming up. If one of them comes through I may be working lots of hours getting up to speed with a new organization.

Aoliviero,

Thanks for the update, and glad to see you agree we're not all crazy for preferring vinyl. Welcome to high end analog reproduction, there's nothing like it.

To have Cello, Raul, Thomasheisig, Thom Mackris and myself all thanked in the same sentence is also a wonderful thing, and perhaps a bit surprising to those who've been around here for a couple of years. We've all worked hard to remain true to our beliefs and experiences, which often differ, yet maintain a civil dialogue. As Rwd observed, a fine comraderie.

Aoliviero,

I haven't heard any TriPlanar except the VII. You already know my take on it vs. all the current Schroeders.

SirSpeedy's criticisms of the TriPlanar's shortcomings are still accurate, but his conclusions are not.

Yes, there is play in the VTA/SRA threads, but this is easily dealt with. We make quick, precise and consistently repeatable SRA adjustments every day.

There is no fine VTF adjustment, but this is easily dealt with. We make quick, precise and consistently repeatable VTF adjustments to the nearest .01g or less every day.

Every arm has its idiosyncracies. The question is, can they be dealt with or do they present insuperable barriers to sonic performance? On a TriPlanar or Schroeder they are easily dealt with and present no such barrier.

SirSpeedy,

Your assertion (now repeated) that these adjustments require "fotzing around all afternoon" is simply not true. Returning to a precise VTA number or fine-tweaking VTF takes 3 seconds, not all afternoon. To state otherwise serves no froggly purpose.

You knew this once, though you may have forgotten. These flaws and the simple fixes for them were addressed on the TriPlanar Tips thread, to which you yourself contributed.

...if a properly set up Schroeder Model 2 comes close to the Triplanar VII then I might put the price difference towards a better cartridge.

I guess that depends on what you call "close". The Model 2 is a great arm for the money, but to my ears there's a large gap between it and the Reference/TriPlanar level. Cartridges come and go but certain tonearms can be forever. The Ref and the TP are two of those.

I value timbral accuracy but I want to make sure that the Schroeder does not give up much in the areas of dynamics, energy, detail, bass response, etc.

They really are very close, at least with the ZYX UNIverses we used for comparison. As ThomasHeisig said the TriPlanar does win in those dynamics/energy areas, but not by very much.

Thom's suggestion that you choose based on which design makes you feel more comfortable was very sensible. With any top arm you'll have to work it to get the best from it.

I wasn't aware of some QC issues with Triplanar. Hopefully this gets worked out.

These shouldn't scare anyone off too much. Once the arm's working right it should work right forever. Mine had a minor cueing drift issue when new. I DIY'd a simple fix (simpler than Chris Brady's suggested mod) and three years later I'd still never trade it for any pivoting arm I've heard.

P.S. to Swampwalker
Thanks for the nice words. Believe it or not, what you heard then was fairly lame compared to what we hear now, thanks to our new amp and preamp. Our TT's back up and running and we're ready for that preamp party whenever you are. Let me know!