Schiit not that Good?


Schiit was at AXPONA again this year. They were showing a Salk music server streaming into a Gungnir Multibit (?) feeding a Freya and two Vidars. Speakers were the Salk Song 3As.

 

So what happened?


Esoteric was just next door. This allowed attendees to move immediately from one room to another. Esoteric was showing a full stack of thier latest separates plus a VPI Avenger for analog. Speakers were a pair of Cantons I didn’t get the model of.

 

The Schiit room, while not bad, was completely destroyed by the Esoteric room. Esoteric played one SACD that unfurled a massive soundstage that I could sense even not being in the best seat. The sound of the Esoteric system, both via SACD and vinyl was dynamic, resolving, extremely musical, collected, vibrant, both large and delicately structured. It was a system that got all the minor details right. Such a good setup. The Schiit setup, while unoffensive, clean, and musical in its own right, simply couldn’t face the Esoteric in inner detail, soundstage, reality and low-level dynamics.

 

Why did the Schiit system fail so hard vs the Esoteric? Part of the reason might have been the junk cabling used by Schiit. Peaking behind the system I was Blue Jeans speaker cables and mess of power bricks, basic cabling, etc. I don’t know how much of the Schiit’s performance was compromised by inferior cabling, but I’m curious how close it would have come to the Esoteric had Schiit paid some basic attention to that area.


madavid0

Showing 12 responses by wolf_garcia

If you have any confidence in your own ears, anybody providing less than positive comments on gear you own really shouldn’t matter, unless maybe it’s seen as a fire hazard. I’ve heard very well regarded gear at high end hifi "salons" or friend’s homes that sounded "meh," but since it’s not in my house being listened to carefully over time it will merely provide a moment’s entertainment, and for me it usually points out how much I like my personally sorted rig. Sorted over years of sorting...Commenting on how much one likes a piece of gear they own isn’t necessarily "pushing" it as personally I don’t care what other people buy, but in the case of the Schiit products I own, a Freya and a Loki EQ, I am guilty of pointing out my experience with these specific things as sounding world class in my rig. If they’re not "giant killers," they’re at least "giant embarrassers" if based only on the quality of construction and the price. Something that works really well and sounds great at a fraction of the cost of its competition (or based on design, cost, and performance seemingly having no competition) is fairly rare around here, and that factor alone will fuel some positive commentary, and so what? Audio stuff often has arbitrary pricing based less on manufacturing costs than simple greed…not disclosing inexpensive Chinese manufacturing, relying on the reputation of "being expensive" to be expensive…that’s the retail high end world. I own a Dennis Had hand made tube amp that has premium parts and sounds astonishingly good…why is it less expensive than a Shindo or Audio Note amp? Who knows, but its being WAY less expensive should be noted as at least an interesting fact. WOOF!
There's barely any reason to turn off the tubes as preamp tubes generally last a fairly long time anyway, and if you are switching from one of the other modes you don't want to wait a minute for the tubes to warm up…if the passive or FET mode is where you want to stay, I think you can remove the tubes, although I found with rolling some NOS Sylvanias in there the tube mode seems to sound better than the other 2, and I need the gain anyway with my single ended little amp.
My name has zero to do with Jerry Garcia as I borrowed the last names of 2 friends (Dave Wolf and Tom Garcia) for a one off open mike gig, and I liked the results so I kept the name for music related things including mixing and playing shows. Using that name for over 20 years...
They established the "jam band" concept so there's that, and were a zero downbeat cruise feel…some great musicianship though, and the 2 studio albums "Workingman's Dead" and "American Beauty" were fabulous.
I've been somewhat of a "Jerry Fan" since they did a couple of shows in Honolulu in 1970 (I recently found my original $3 ticket in some stuff from my late mother's house). To me, and most musicians around at that time, you could not imagine that band would be around as long as they were (and are in some form), but I never again saw them live as I'm not so much a festival attendee. I did frame the ticket, and there has been a recording of the Honolulu Civic shows from 1970 released recently…I should get that recording...
Judgmentday, I feel your pain...I have an amazing sounding dual mono balanced Kavent S-33/Vincent (rebadged for reasons I don't understand) preamp that I have actually dragged to friend's houses to see if it sounded any better than other things, and it does. After owning a Freya for 6 months or so I recently stuck the Kavent back in the system and it still sounds great, but the Freya sounds better. Tubes…NOS Sylvanias, etc., and note that the Freya is so inexpensive relative to its features and sound quality that there actually is no current competition for it in the marketplace, except for maybe the Schiit Saga which gets good reviews and is simpler. OK Judgmentday, you can stop reading now. Also, regarding great sound back in the day, many other bands that cared about sound used piles of Altec A7s, including a Bob Dylan and the Hawks show I saw in Hawaii in 1966 or something…loud and life changing.
Thinking of gear as competing in a "pushup contest" is funny. I replaced a serious dual mono balanced preamp that sounds fabulous and listed originally for a couple of grand with a Freya. The Freya doesn't "blow the other amp out of the water" or sound like a 30 grand ARC Reference 10 (I've heard one of these...seemed to work OK), but it seems to not have a sound particularly...it doesn't hum or thump or add or subtract anything in my rig...it just allows music to get to my ears. The largest change in my gear pile is the addition of Gold Lion KT77s to my Dennis Had SEP amp...great tubes making my already coherent rig sound better...I can only say that the Freya is fun to use and you can forget it's there. 
I haven't heard every Schiit product, but I am very fond of my Freya, Loki, and two Magni IIIs...all of these are relatively inexpensive, as is the Aegir that I didn't like so much and sent back since I prefer my single ended tube amp. 
I had 2 Aegirs, the first was too sensitive and shut itself off with little prompting (at not so loud levels), and the one that replaced it would only shut off at more extreme levels so I assumed it was working as designed...still, although I don't listen at high volume much, I do sometimes crank the system a bit if I'm next to the listening area in my kitchen, and with Klipsch Heresy IIIs it really should be more difficult to trigger the shut down mode as they get loud with relatively little power. Still, it shut down with no real heat issues and before any audible clipping. Anyway, with high hopes for some Class A magic prompted by curiosity from the Stereophile review, I listened to a bunch of my faves on the Aegir. A very resolving amp with a sweet tone...but...with my Dennis Had amp nearby and some furrowed brow Aegir sessions wondering exactly what was lacking, or at least why there was some sense of artificiality or a hard to pinpoint lack of ultimate accuracy of timbre...I put the Had tube amp back in the system. Note that this amp, using various tube options over the last couple of years, delivers pinpoint accuracy and musical micro resolution, and a slam that surprises you from just 12 to 17 or so watts...clear as a bell. Anyway, although I consider the Aegir a very nice design that should satisfy many, it just couldn't beat my little single ended masterpiece from ol' Dennis, so back it went. My curiosity regarding the Pass XA25 has waned somewhat but I'd still like to try one someday, but no hurry. Bottom line: To my ears my Dennis Had Inspire Firebottle HO simply sounds like music should, has been a reliable little workhorse since day one and never lacks for anything in my particular rig.
I have zero interest in ANY transistor power amp (I’ll read about them...otherwise, no no no) in my main listening heap, class d or a or a/b or yer mama. I’m limited to efficient speakers, but that’s just fine as they tend to hurl the sound at my earballs with more gusto than otherwise, and my simple single ended tube amp sounds so damn good. I’m now becoming more curious about OTLs like the Atma-Sphere stuff (although I’m not so sure there is anything "like" Atmas-Sphere’s amps)...perhaps that’s my next step if I can deal with 16 tubes instead of 4...I might have to talk to Ralph...balanced stuff appeals to me, and I like the word "circlotronic."
I disagree with the distortion argument since my SEP (pentode, not triode...a little more power) likely is running on a couple of watts until louder things require maybe 5 or so (in my estimation anyway), and the amp with 99db speakers ain't working too hard. If those evil alleged distortions are what's making me like my amp, then that's just fine with me. I do dismiss critics claiming to know what I'm hearing since they're not here, and even with the bandwidth or lack of distortion or whatever claims are made for Ralph's OTL amps or Berning's ZOTLs, not everyone prefers those designs.  I know exactly when my amp "runs out of juice" and when it doesn't, and it sounds so much better than any other design I've heard over the last 5 or so decades I'll likely keep the thing forever.
Polish them horns devilboy, and wash that little superhero suit before Mom comes home...Single ended tube amps with or without transformers..."dude"...however, apples are crunchy or not, can be red in color or green or speckled or otherwise, and historically were used for cider all over America to offer general drunkenness...bananas are very different, and although generally shipped green are usually yellow when ripe.  Really not much of a comparison, there ya go.