Its only important that (1) you have a system which is sufficiently resolved to reveal the differences, (2) that you know the record you are listening to "by heart", and (3)you know what you are listening for. There are too many varibles involved beside the record for the record to be a meaningful issue in the context of standardization. IMHO.
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Newbee, yes that is just what I am saying , if all comparisons where done with the same record , we would end up knowing them "by heart" and we would know what others were saying , when we listened to the record. All systems are different I agree. Over time I think this would work , but who am I.
Well Newbee , as I said the Audiogon Com.would pick.The records would just be for the compare , not for life. Sorry you think its crap and maybe it is. But think about it, no 2 systems are alike , so there's no constant there , I just think a constant would be nice. I know there are Audiogoner's out there who know what CD/Music would do the job. And if you did not want to buy the CD OK. But if you did ,you come listen along with the review. Tvad , Thanks but I am new and know others here are head and shoulders above me and coukd name the music.But if they could agree.
Creege, I'd didn't mean to imply that your idea was crap (if it appears to you that I did). And I can understand your frustration with reviewers who talk on at length about how some piece of music sounded on two different components, especially when they have music which you have never heard - it just becomes meaningless (to me at least).
My poor attempts at humor aside, what I really believe is that if I am talented enuf for you to respect my opinion in the first place it really doesn't matter what type of music I listen to in order to reach an opinion, so long as you know my equipment, my room, and my personal tastes. If you don't know me or my things and taste, you really have nothing to work with, except your subjective reaction.
Another problem, for many I assume, is that records that I listen to for judging equipment are records that I have come to appreciate over the years for certain traits. All are NLA on the market, except used, and only a couple are in any sense audiophile disc's (which I personally dislike for these purposes as many of these records are so well made that they will sound great over crappy components). I tend to choose discs that challenge certain aspects of electronics. For example, I have a solo piano recording that in one brief section has a very complex and loud mixture of notes which on many components becomes harsh and unpleasant, and on others dull and rolled off. If its bright and musical, then the component is handling that part of the spectrum perfectly. The record also works well on system set up as often the problem is in the first relected sounds mixing with the first arrival sounds prematurely.
Sorry for dragging this out, I wish I could be more positive about your idea, but I think this is an area in which we must all, ultimately, find our own way.
OK, I simply said that I think it's a valid point to have three CDs that we can agree on that would provide a musical basis by which to compare and analyze gear. I mean, if someone can identify a section of a song, "Hey, can you hear the phlegm in the back of Snoop Dog's throat on that tune...Man, that's the Shizznit!", then perhaps we can all have a common point of reference. I'm making a little fun here, but the idea has merit. How much could three CDs cost? No, disrespect to the analog guys...
Newbee , NO harm , I think Tvad said it all(Thanks). I just think guys like you , Newbee, have a better understanding of the music then , say me and may others aswell. If we all listen to the same CD or record , then (yes)a common point to learn from.Thanks for your input , both of you.Newbee/Tvad, name a recording?
Because you persist, and because if you can find it it will be of great help to you personally in setting up and evaluating your system - Depth of Image by Opus 3. This is symply recorded acoustic music in various venues by various groups playing different instruments and includes male and female voices. Properly setup it defines what your system can do image wise and can be downright spooky. I heard it first about 20 years ago and in one one cut I felt I could have walked in amoungst the musicians and joined them! If you ever see it LP or CD buy it and use it, but only if you are up to the challenge........
Very close, but no cigar! As you might have figured out, this was a series of records/cd and the one you displayed was the last one, but don't let that stop you. Buy it!
The record I was referring to was "Test Record 1" in the series, "Depth of Image". Get all four if you can, they all serve a good purpose.
In looking at the Opus 3 site I notice that they had a CD with selections from Test Records 1, 2, and 3. As Test Record 1 had only about 40 minutes of materiel, you might get some excellent stuff from that one CD alone. I assume that it will be accompanied by a description of what you should hear with each cut - that is really helpful. Otherwise, its probably off to E-Bay.
Just to whet your appitite, on Test Record 1 they have a cut of a recorder playing in its upper registers - what a challenge this is to your system! Done wrong, your dog will commit suicide! The also have a cut with a group doing pan pipes and drums, and talking amounst themeselves while trying to do so (pan pipes are a bit difficult) - this was the cut that I said I could have walked in amoung the players. They also have a Swedish female singer which will help you with the amount of sibilence you should hear and the opening of the cut includes some out of phase notes which place part of the sound of the guitar far left of the left speaker (or it should if your speakers are set up properly), and a bass violin playing very clear very deep bass tones - or at least thats what you should hear!
Good luck in your quest........
Not the final say but, I`ll give you four;
Dire Straits "On every Street"
Dire Straits "Love Over Gold"
Diana Krall "Love Scenes"
Diana Krall "the Girl In The Other Room."
Darn, I better stop here at least four more just popped into my head.
If you check out ics from your dealer to compare make sure they are already burned in good.
I'll second both Dire Straits CDs mentioned above with my preference being "On Every Street" because IMO it's a better recording. For another rock/pop choice, I'll add Sting's "Brand New Day" or Lyle Lovett's "Joshua Judges Ruth".
I'll also second Diana Krall "The Girl In the Other Room". For female vocal, I actually prefer Lucinda Williams' "Car Wheels on a Gravel Road" because Lucinda's voice is a little nasally, and therefore provides a bit more challenge to a system.
I'm still searching for a good piano reference disk. I recently picked up Dr. John's "Dr. John Plays Mac Rebennack", and some of it sounds distorted on my system. I'm not sure yet if it's a poor recording or a system limitation. I'm hoping it's the former. :)
OK , how do we create one list , what reference categories should we have? You can always use your reference disk for youself and the Audiogon list for forum. I think we have people takling about the list anyway. Raytheprinter yes I know what you mean , you can almost see and hear what someone is saying about the disk.
Jea48 , you know I do not have any of your disks (I will add one of each , whitch ones?) , but who will have the final say (Audiogon vote?), I know I am not the one , what names here do most of the compares , how do we get them engaged? I only read the forum (until now), my system is nothing compared to most everybodies here , but I like to hear what Audiogon has to say and I like to dream.
Just saw this thread for the first time. I'll whole heartedly agree with Newbe. The Opus 3 Test Record 1 is an absolute must have for system set up. The music is good too...I grew to apprciate it much. I have the vinyl of the recording. I've only heard the CD version once and by comparison, it seemed flat. Unfortunatelty, I don't see the collection available anymore from Opus 3. Find it used!
Other music that is enjoyable and useful for evaluating your system is:
These are a few(!) that come to mind.
Enjoy and Cheers!