SACD- my intial thoughts....

Some people don't care sound quality, and some are not well educated to tell the difference.

I am an engineer, so let me put it in this way.
Higher sample and more bits of info need more data storage. What you gain from there? Higher sample rate will have higher bandwidth and therefore make it easier for smooth high frequency sounding. A similar DAC/amp CKT will sound more refined and smooth on SACD format. More bit will give you more dynamic sound. For example, most of music are in the middle loud range, so a CD will give 12 bit (just for example) to record the music to cover enough detail for most of music in moderate loud range. However it leaves only 6 bit for very loud or quiet level. Therefore a CD might lose the resolution or layers when the music comes to very loud or whisper quiet.

In real life, a SONY 775 playing SACD rivals redbook player >$500 (even >1K redbook machine). Why? a higher sampling rate makes DAC/amp CKT easier to achieve high resolution and smooth sound. So 775 may not have a fancy OP or DAC, but still not bad for SACD. A redbook player has to have expensive DAC/amp to sing not be edgy. A expensive redbook can get rid of edgy sound by good DAC/amp design (which SACD can do too), but they will not have the same layers (namely dynamics) as LP/SACD.

For dynamics, did you ever wonder why a pop CD always give you the same punch in the music? Some are from electronic instrument, and some are from the compressed data in CD format. They ain't sound bad acoustically, but just lacks of layers like drummer is repeating his work without emotion. Try to hear a LP or SACD playing symphony, the drum or bass/cello winding low freq. They have loud, Loud+, very loud, damn loud...., suddenly all layers are there, and the music is more exciting. Then you realize that the performers are more creative than you thought hearing in CD. It sound more like a human playing not a robot. The extra bits help SACD to sing more like a analog source.

Of course, some people don't care, they are happy with what they have. Some enjoy VCR as much as DVD, nothing wrong with it. You save $$ if so. But "people don't care" is not "there is no differece".

Some do care and maybe they are willing to buy the products which makes music more expressive.

Ben,

I believe some of SACD are remastered of old master tapes.
If CD was done in earlier days while master tape still in its prime. Then, there may be some CD sounds better than SACD version, plus recording/remaster engineer's ear has to do with his/her capability of remastering tape to a digital source.

On the other hand, dynamic range has a very rigorous scientific definition. I believe SONY's gives the exact number in dB in its introduction paper of every SACD. The advantage is definitely there, and scientifically measurable (For sure, this part is not just simple mental effect). A well recorded SACD is for sure having a more dynamic sound than CD. However, a good LP setup still has a larger dynamic range than SACD. If your friend is referring to LP, I agree, analog is still the best in this regard. I am not sure how your friend compares SACD and CD. But remember the trick in my privous post, enough punch yet resolution. In real life a drummer does punch its drum exactly the same twice. In CD, lots of drumming sounds single toned, but in LP or good SACD not only can sound louder also more expressions because of beter resolution. You can hear the difference of differnt beat. Drum is easy to hear, actually the same applies to all other instrument. (That's why I still like pi-li-pi-li LP).
Piano is another good instrument to hear. Hear all bass/cello in an orchestra winding up and down. I don't think you can hear more music on CD than a LP or SACD.

Also digital processing and coding technology today is much better than old days. Actually, you will gain more than 6 bits of information (or I should say music or expressioins), considering coding/deciding is more advanced now.

Ben,

Yes! thanks for reading and understanding my post.
TWL would be happy to hear people like LP (I need your suggestion in the end).
I believe some new audiophiles can gain something if I explain it clear enough.

One suggestion for other audiophile's listening.
The output of a CD or SACD are not exactly the same.
Some from recorinding and coding, and some from output CKT design. If your CD player output has a slightly higher voltage or output impedance is different, by setting pre-amp at the same position, that CD player would sound louder than other CD or SACD players. Some may take it as more dynamic, but actually it is simply louder not more dynamic.
Some modify CD player's output (higher) to use a passive pre-amp, that's for different purpose.

We can always turn up the volume to sqeeze your power amp for extra dB's. However, a dynamic sound in SACD can tell the difference of 50 and 50.1 dB (just for example). But a CD may only give your the difference 50 and 50.2 (e.g. 50.1 is compressed to either 50 or 50.2 dB).

TWL, I have an old Oracle with Grace arm. I used BPS or Grado Platinum and it sound very good with ARC PH3. Since my PH3 can certainly take higher output than that, you think what should be my next step up? I am not rich, so please give some suggestions, which I can save money to finish. Can Grace handle MC well (which?) or I should save for years to get another arm or table?

Thanks!

If the gear can't handle the details of a SACD, it can't handle a good redbook player either. A SACD DAC at higher sampling rate is easier to design being smooth sounding.
If you put your Nu-Vista on the same set-up, I think, it will not sound as good as in your set up either.

Details will not annoy anybody's ear, it is the edgy sound somewhere caused by bad source, IC's, or amplification. With the same $$ with Nu-Vista, those SACD players should be good enough and I don't think they are the source for edgy details. Unless you tell me that you try to use a low end SACD player to compare with your Nu-Vista.

Also get a SACD recorded recently, not some reissued from 10 or 20 years ago. The mother tape is already old, your CD was coded when the mother tape was fresh. You are comparing a raw fish sashimi with a well cooked old fish.
If the fish is too old, a better wasabi can't save it.