As I learn (Bertrand Russel would say 'as I expand my ignorance') I'm developing a different question to ask of audiophile friends. [ought I say phriends? No!]
Now, instead of asking what gear they listen to, or if they like vinyl, I'm really interested in their room; is it treated, or not? And what technique(s) / how much time is invested in setting up?
That's it: despite the current cover of Stereophile, size no longer matters to me, neither do components at this point. I don't even care about CD / TT until I've learned what effort a listener has put into working the room.
Recently tired the Furutech version of the Acoustic Revive RWL-3 Diffuser. I use it between the speakers and found a significant improvement. That was the good news. Now the bad news. I need to 'retune' the room to see what additional beneifts can can found. This stuff never ends. I am in the 'its the room, stupid' school of audio.
No treatment, just living room, but cleverly damped. Wooden floor, large bookshelf on one side, heavy velvet curtains on the other, big velvet sofa, heavy leather carpet, sounds much better than "dedicated" rooms I heard. Avoid absolutely stone floor. IMHO. Jean.
My listening space is baffled with a complex admixture of adorbing absorbing a complex reflective facades creating a very halographic but not numb overdamped anechoic chamber. Keep it lively. a lot like Jloveys but piles of useless stuff all over.
Who needs treatments? I just turn the volume up more. :-)
I like Jloveys' approach also. He is breaking up the reflections with good decorating choices. I can't say that is what I've done and I don't have much room for additional furniture. After finding some recipes online I have made many bass traps. About 12 circular and 5 panel type. It has helped my room quite a bit, and believe me the room needs help being the typical finished basement with drop ceiling. Now that I have most of my system together I may try some commercial products to see if they are even better. ASC, GIK, RealTraps are all good places to checkout.
I have an unconventional room which does not allow for the normal treatments you see in the application guides from the various purveyors of acoustic treatments. It has required over six months of trial and error with various panels from GIK and Acoustical Solutions placed in different locations. I use a combination of 2", 4", 6" thick GIK absorber panels along with Acoustical solutions diffusor panels. There are also four 9"x6' ASC tube traps near each corner boundary. The room has thick carpet on a concrete floor and sheetrock walls. The left wall is pretty much all windows with wood shutters over them. The front wall has french doors in the middle with an entry foyer behind where I have placed two of the big GIK traps. The back wall has one large GIK trap up in the right hand corner and the remainder of the back wall are four 2'x2' diffusor panels. The right wall has some 2" GIK panels up high on the partial wall that separates the living area from kitchen/dining along with two big GIK traps atop the plant shelf. I keep improving on a "less than ideal" room. The acoustic treatments do result in improved sound and imaging. I'm mostly done but still have a few ideas I'd like to try. Unfortunately it is expensive if you buy 500.00 worth of product and it doesn't work out.
I did not plan this, but I have about 10,000 lp's. They cover both of my side walls and front wall. This came about after moving my system and lp's into the same room a few months ago. My ceilings are nine feet tall and with a nice rug on my hardwood floors I could not be happier.
Cdk84, my dedicated listening room is 16'w 23'lg and 10'h. I have treated all of the corners and first reflection side wall areas with RealTraps' MondoTraps and MiniTraps The difference is not small. I suggest thet you go on RealTraps web site where they have an abundance of information. If you want to talk to someone, call and ask for Ethan or Jim . They are great guys to deal with and have a world of experience. Good Luck.
Roughly 15 - 20K worth of treatment. Soffit mounting of main monitors and rear wall behind the listener treatments were the most costly probably because I tried to get an aesthetic result. It may not have been enough as I still use a PEQ to tame the subwoofer for room modes and I also have four large GIK corner tri-traps.
I have ASC 1/4 rounds in the corners from floor to ceiling behind the speakers, ASC tube traps on rear wall and side walls behind speakers. An ASC 1/4 round in rear corner behind listening futon, other rear corner is open via a door. RPG studio foam panels at first reflection points from floor to upper mid level. Room has wall to wall carpeting. Speakers are set up semi diagonally in the room.
Michael Greens corner traps in all 4 ceiling corners and MG corner strips midway along the wall/ceiling. ASC 1/4 rounds are augmented by Teknasonics vibration absorbers and the whole room is treated with Golden Sound Acoustic discs.
The room was an acoustic nightmare before treatment but is now neutral from top to bottom while not being completely dead.
I purchased an Auralex kit which is versatile and performs well but has low WAF. Also have a couple of DIY panels which work very well. Heavy drapes cover the window behind the equipment. If your room is dedicated to audio, room treatments are essential. I know because I hooked up my system in the room with bare walls all around. Then went to work with the treatments. What a difference.
How come this thread is not in the "acoustics" forum? Oh that's right, Audiogon needs an acoustics forum to ask these questions in. How about it ,lets see a raise of hands for an acoustics forum right here on Audiogon.
We have some really acoustically knowledgeable folks right here on Audiogon, such as Rives and Duke (just to name a few) amongst the manufacturers and a fair number of contributors who know a thing or two. Lets do it, a new Acoustics forum, who says yea? This is too important of a subject to be (continued to be) ignored.
Hi Dan, That may be true that there are other sites with acoustic forums, but we all know that Audiogon is the best audio site around and that its members deserves all questions answered with good info and not have to go elswhere to ask or receive great acoustic knowledge.
This is too important of a subject to ignore, especially if Audiogon wants to continue to be the best and most respected site on the net for audio discussion.
This is not the first question about acoustics here and they are usuallly lost in the speakers/general/etc forums. They deserve proper answers in a proper forum.
In my opinion the soundquality mainly depends on the quality of the reflection. I use Acoustic System resonators, sugar cubes and Acoustic Revive RR 77. Now my room is treated with resonators the differences between components are significant smaller. I mean even a small setup sounds great now.
I said, "How come this thread is not in the "acoustics" forum?..... Audiogon needs an acoustics forum to ask these questions in. How about it ,lets see a raise of hands for an acoustics forum right here on Audiogon. Lets do it, a new Acoustics forum, who says yea? This is too important of a subject to be (continued to be) ignored."
Well apparently it is being ignored again. Come one come all lets rally for an "Acoustics forum" We have one nay from Dan-ed. And one yea from me. Anyone want to be the tie breaker? All we need is one yes/no for a definative vote!
Clearly we're Dan-ed if we do and Dan-ed if we don't.
I for one (not that it matters that I initiated this thread) am only against sitting on the fence, hence the above gratuitous remark --intended to offend no one, BTW.
Let's get it rolling!
One reason for asking to add an 'Acoustics' or 'Room Treatments' Forum (I propose the latter title as the less ambiguous of the two --terminology can be helpful and clarifying) is that we come here to share learning and opinions, however puerile the puns. I would suggest that both topics be added, as they differ in my mind and are both relevant, but that might get us neither.
It is an important part of the process to refine our venue as awareness and / or information improve. We are collectively better informed thanks to the opportunity that The Gon offers.
Another sound reason for a new page of inquiry is that we chat endlessly about listening to music, with the avowed intention of re-creating the best achievable transmission of an original recorded performance. Those recordings were all made on instruments, in a particular performance venue that has its own sonic character. *Every one of us* listens inside just that, the instrument that is our listening room.
Unless your listening room provides cues about the 'sound' of the original recording venue, your room is doing a dysservice [sic] to you and probably to your equipment. We the audience, are not doing our part to 'let the music through' if we leave the sound of our fundamental instrument, our listening room, unexamined and untreated.
A room's sonic character plays a part in our listening enjoyment: the extent to which that role detracts or promotes musicality and satisfaction lies in our hands alone.
Truly, what could be more important in audio? We ignore our listening environment's signature sonics at the peril of our pleasure, and I'm a hedonist. I'm in this for delight -- make no mistake.
I will contact AgoN to inquire of their willingness to open a new forum topic entitled 'Room Treatments.'
Any further suggestions before I get off the fence?
If we are granted a Room Treatments page, I would like to suggest a couple of very loose parameters for our posts, but that's for another thread.
One more vote for a "Room Treatments" forum. Would speaker placement and rack location, for example, be discussed in this forum? How about "getting the most out of your system" or "system optimization"? Nice thread Cdk84.