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+1 on the Rogue. You can't beat their customer service. They are always available over the phone.
Thanks for the suggestion of requesting to borrow the Rogue for a in home demo, it’s funny that you all mentioned that because that is exactly what I am doing right now. I picked up the unit yesterday and have till about Saturday.
I will tell you of my honest experience so far and how I feel.
Sorry if this post gets a little long.
As soon as I got it home, I hooked it right up of course.
First, let me describe the rest of my equipment.
- Martin Logan Motion 40 Speakers- Questyle CMA400i DAC- Denon DP-300f TT w/Ortofon 2M Blue Cartridge- Denon Universal Blu ray Player - Using for CD/SACD Playback- HTPC for Hi Res Music Playback
OK, so the unit definitely sounds good and I played one of tracks that the showroom was playing when I heard it there, Eagles Hotel California (2013 Remastered), which at the showroom was very impressive. They played through Tidal using an Aurender Unit.
I don’t have that but do have my HTPC connected to my DAC and so played through Tidal as well as Qobuz. Both sounded good but as I stated before, room acoustics play a big role. Their show room had a low flat ceiling and I have vaulted ceilings, so the sound was different but still good.
Last night and this morning, I have listened to different types of music through CD, SACD, Vinyl, Hi Res Music (DSD, Flac, Qobuz and Tidal).
The Rogue has more bass then the Vincent since it puts out 200 wpc vs 80 watts on the Vincent. My Speakers are 4 ohms.
But so far, here is my dilemma. The Rogue sounds very close to the Vincent. I wouldn’t say that one is better or far superior to the other as far as sound is concerned. I wish it was a dramatic difference as that would have made this easier but it is not.
Other factors are important to me also. I like the looks of the Vincent and the foot print is smaller making it easier to accommodate in my media cabinet. I have the Silver Faced Rogue right now and it is elegant looking, reminds me of the latest Yamaha AS Series Integrateds.
But overall, the sound between the 2 units is very close and the Rogue will be basically about $600 more with tax and all. The Vincent was straight $1000.
There is also one more dilemma. One that you may laugh at and one with which I may lost some credibility, You might think, "This guy does not know what he is talking about"
Before the Vincent, I was using my Denon AVR-5700. An AVR that came out in 1999 but was top of the line in it’s time. In my opinion a high quality piece of equipment.
I did extensive back and forth between the Vincent and Denon and they sound very similar.
Well, sorry for the long post. I am going to continue to evaluate the Rogue.
But this is very difficult for me, to decide between the Rogue and Vincent.
They are both Hybrid Amps, Vincent being Class A/B and Rogue being Class D with Tube based Pre-ams (as far as my understaning is).
Ha, why can’t things be simple :)
Martin Logan Motion 40’s impart a LOT of their own sound signature into the mix. They had a very forward “presence” region with a big midrange suckout. I owned some previously.
My point is, they aren’t the easiest speakers to really suss out amplifier differences on, and it’s no surprise to me that they all sounded similar.
Thanks for your input on the ML’s.
You are probably right on me not hearing dramatic differences between the amps.
Which is another reason I think I might just stay with the Vincent since I can’t hear a big difference compared to the Rogue.
The Rogue is definitely a nice piece of equipment but I think I can spend the price difference on a good phono pre-amp for the Vincent.
+1 for Rogue. Be sure to check for possible future expansion capabilities on the Vincent. As a Rogue Pharaoh owner I'll say you get a lot of bang for the buck.. Driving B&W 803D2 it does real justice to the music. Unknown benefit is that it can be connected to an HT processor. This allows me to either use the Rogue or the HT processor for spinning the 12 inch platters. I think it's a great piece and worth the extra dollars. Customer service is excellent.
Thnx for your input. For the HT functionality, are you referring to Home Theater Bypass?
I actually have a separate Yamaha Aventage receiver that I use for HT use, so that functionality I wouldn't be using but it's good to know that it has that capability.
I returned the Rogue that I borrowed. Now I am just deciding what to do. I still have about 10 days left on the Vincent before I can return it if I need to.
I wanted to ask another question. What do you all think of the Yamaha AS 1100 series?
I see used ones for around the same.price as the new Rougue or Vincent. I know that is SS but from reviews that I have read, users claim it is warm and tube like
I once owned a Vincent SV-226 and thought it to be a very good integrated. Authoritative bass, smooth articulate mids and treble. Wish I had never sold it. I have not heard the SV-500.
If needing a phonostage and your Vincent plays well with your speakers I would keep it and spend on the phonostage. Likely would get a greater system upgrade than swapping amps.
I've never heard the Rogue or Vincent but don't shortchange the Denon, I own the PMA-2000 IVR and it's a very good integrated that's punchy, powerful and dynamic and plays much louder than it's 80 wpc so it's quite possible the Denon may be closer to both amps then you might realize. That being said the poster who stated the speakers may be hard to differentiate differences in amps could very well have some merit
Actually I found that , in my case, I could connect ICS from the Rogue variable output to a analog input on my processor and enjoy LP playback in simulated surround if I wanted. A nice bonus. Using the Rogue as phono stage at that configuration. Also a bonus the Rogue remains in standby mode. Been meaning to ask Rogue about that.
Thanks for everyone's input and suggestions.
After much thought and struggles in my head, LOL, I have finally decided to stay with the Vincent.
As I said before, the Rogue was also a very good unit but I don't know why I am attached to this Vincent now.
I think, I feel that's it's the under dog and I need to give it a chance, haha.
What I am going to concentrate on next is better interconnects, a good/decent Phono Pre-Amp and better Power Conditioner.
Right now, I am connected to a very entry level power strip.
I am thinking about getting better AC Receptacle and a decent power Conditioner unit.
Actually, the PS Audio AC Receptacle and their Detect Power Conditioner come to mind.
Also, need to work on my room acoustics a bit.
By the way, being in Southern California and experiencing these earthquakes (had a good one tonight earlier), has me a little worried for my speakers.
I hope they don't tip over.