Rivals for B&W 805 Signature in small rooms?

Size of the speaker doesn't matter if it works well in small rooms.

Which loudspeakers out there can beat the B&W 805 Signature?!
Merlin TSM....
JM Lab Mini and Micro Utopia. Much better!
Look at new BW range launched this week.New Nautilus 805s.Looks like Nautilus 805 but with "inside " of Nautilus 805 Signature = sound of Signature at lesser price ?Not Diamond tweeter as in the other diamond range.But then would beat the 805 Signatures.Many say that 705 beats Nautilus 805.Diamond tweeter will shurely follow in the 805s and 805 Signature in the not to distant future,say 6 months ?You have to keep up with BW as they like to change frequently.
I second the Merlin's.Look at the Merlin TSM and VSM's.
A very subjective question and that without any parameters.
I have to disagree Bluebull, in looking at B&W's history I do not see where they "change frequently". Also, there is nothing reported that the new N805S has the "inside" of the S805, not to mention the S805 having a different tweeter, nor IMO would I expect a N805 with the Diamond tweeter, if so they would of introduced it with this line.
Diapason Adamantes either the II or the new version.
New Nautilus 805s does not have the new diamond tweeter.The 805 and 800 Signatures,also does not have the diamond tweeter.The new 800,801,802 and 803 Diamonds do have the new tweeter.I did say "not diamond tweeter as in the other diamond range"Time will tell if I or you are right,Brian.Funny nothing on the 804.If the new Nautilus 805s are no different why the huge increase in price ?
Hi Chris, I am aware that the Signature series does not have the diamond tweeter, what I said was that the Signature series uses a different tweeter over the Nautilus series, so the N805, and new N805S, does not have the same tweeter as the S805. Furthermore, where did I say the new N805S didn't change from the current N805? I too thought it interesting that there is no mention of the N804, then again I would purchase the S805 over the N804 any day.
Brian & Bluebell,

First of all, the N802 and N804 have been eliminated in the new line up. By adding another bass driver to the 803, changing the crossover, reinforcing the cabinet and adding the new tweeter the new 803D will outperform the existing 802 so they eliminated the 802. Basically, B&W made a marketing decision to offer fewer options in the Nautilus-Diamond line and to substantially increase their profit margins. The way they justify this is by radically and substantially improving the performance of the remaining speakers in the line.

Forget about how good the Sig 805's sound. Many people were thinking that the new nautilus line would just incorporate the Signature tweeter and crossover on the older 804's, 803's and 802's. NO!! In order to justify the huge price increases (the new 803D will retail for around $8,000) B&W
has (can you believe this) significantly improved upon the sound of the Signature tweeter. The new diamond tweeter smokes the Signature tweeter. Additionally, the crossover has been reworked and the internal cabinet structure redesigined.

So B&W's goal was to offer owners of the new diamond series a product that surpasses the performance of the Sig 805's...which makes sense whne you consider the price difference.

B&W has perfected the art of making sure as you move up in their line each speaker has a noticeable improvment. They're one of the best compnaies I've seen at doing that. If you line up and listen to the new 705, N805 and Sig 805's (ab'ing all three..I've done that) you can hear the improvments as you go up. And the differences are not subtle. B&W has done that again with teh new diamond series.

I'm excited to hear the diamond line. All of the information I gave you above was provided from a reliable source who is a B&W insider.

Good luck!

Good,Two-way man,my type of thinking!
Avguru, with all due respect to your reliable insider, two people have quoted from the recent B&W release in which the 802D is included; also, the N803 can be had in either N803D or N803. As for the new Diamond tweeter "smoking" the signature tweeter, this is a statement made without ever having heard it, that said one would expect that it should be an improvement.

"In order to justify the huge price increases..." This opening line makes no sense.

"So B&W's goal was to offer owners of the new diamond series a product that surpasses the performance of the Sig 805's..." B&W's goal was to improve upon their previous line.

I just see things a bit differently.

Thanks for the info.Perhaps Brian may want to know the following.New N805s,how does that differ from the old N805 and the N805 Signature?
Blue Bull
Bluebull, I know the (basic) differences of the new line, that is - new crossover, new LF diaphragms, modified cabinet and diamond tweeter, where applicable...this is what Kal has posted anyway from the info he has.
Yes,I know.What is not clear is the changes on the N805s(the new model)compared to the N805(original) and the 805 Signatures.See hificlube.net.So I would also like to know.Do not confuse N805s with N805 Signature.
This is the short fall of the 'net, miscommunication at times; I am not sure what I stated that has you believing that I am confusing the 805 speakers.

Let's get the names straight:

N805 - The origianl Nautilus 805

N805S - The new Nautilus 805 (The new Nautilus line appears that have a suffux of D or S after the model of every speaker, D=Diamond and S=Serialze (?) -- I think that is what I read S was.

S805 - Signature 805, this is not part of the Nautilus line but rather the Prestige line.

As for differences, I can list some between the N805 and S805.

This is taken from What HiFi:

"...But the changes are more than skin-deep: the speakers use an improved tweeter, with a raised top-end cut-off point of 50kHz. Distortion at these high frequencies has been minimised by silver-plating the magnet centre pole."

"The mid/bass unit has also been adjusted to give a faster and tighter response, principally by the adoption of a magnet some 40% bigger than that in the standard N805. An aluminium centre 'bullet' is fitted instead of the standard speaker's plastic piece, thus cleaning up the upper midrange, and the crossover has been extensively upgraded."

I can also note, the obvious beautiful finish, different binding posts and a re-tuning of the Flowport. I will not claim all the above is a complete list, but some I know.

As for the extent of the changes on the new N805S speakers, they were just announced, we don't fully know yet; it appears to be cabinet and some crossover changes for sure, other than that, time will reveal it.
Hi, Sony:

IMHO, it's hard to find monitors that don't excel B&W in all parameters at the price range. Throw a stone in the
the next CES, and you'll hit something better. I went to audition B&Ws many times, and always leave scratching my head. I prefer speakers that are time and phase aligned, but that pretty much rules out monitors. It's all very subjective, though.

Good luck,
No miscommunication of the net.I also do not believe that you are confusing the different 805 models(You do own the Signatures)I am shure you are very familiar with the extensive product line up.
I also am very familiar with the differences between the N805 and the 805 Signatures-old news by now.
What I do want to know are 1) the differences between the
N805 and the new N805s(perhaps s is for standard?) if there is a difference.
2)The differences between the new N805s and the 805 Signatures We know the dif in finish and the tweeter.Anything else ?
Perhaps AVGURU can enlighten us ?
Please note that I am asking these questions as a matter of interest and not because I am "anti" BW nor do I plan to buy BW.Like I told you before I did order Merlin VSM-MM's.
We all share a common goal.
Chris, I didn't think you were anti-B&W, the purpose for my posts is this that I don't like things stated as fact that are not or not known yet and admit that I wrongly interpret how things are said sometimes.

As I stated, I don't think that anyone knows, in detail, all the differences yet with the new Nautilus line, outside of those at B&W; so in a nutshell, I understand your questions, but I think you will have to wait just a little while for the answers, anything else is speculation and opinion, like others, I have mine.

Will be interesting to see eventualy what they did do with the N805s.
Not much speculation on the 800D,801D and 803D-quite clear.
Also interesting to see if they discontinue the 804 and 802 or at a later stage also bring out D versions or keep as it is.Perhaps consolidating the range.Fewer models cut production cost.
If the prices quoted are correct it would be quite more expensive than the current range,wouldn't it ?(Not shure what the prices are in the States)
There is a new N802D, for U.S. prices, look at this thread.
Youre right there is a 802D
A new N804 (N804S) too.
htguide.com go to club BW speakers.All the info you need.
So, from the kind posts, I realize there will soon be released a new 805S that will have a performance close to the current 805 Signature (or even better) at almost half the price. This is an important note. The diamond tweeter does not capture my atention, as I find the current 800 Sig. and 805 Sig. tweeter good enough. The crossover and bass are the areas where I would be curious for improvement.

Concerning other 800 series models, I will say they are off topic because I've tried a 802 in a small room and it was a disaster - they seem to need space to work well.

Now, the alternatives listed are:
- Merlin TSM or VSM
- JM Lab Mini and Micro Utopia
- Diapason adamante II or III

I've heard the JM Lab Micro Utopia and also wasn't convinced by the bass performance.
Any other suggestions? How about AAD 2002?
Want alternatives:Top class Two - way's ?
B + W 705
Dynaudio Audience 52 SE
KEF Ref 201
Sonus Faber Cremona Auditors
Dynaudio Special 25

I would go for the Merlin VSM-MM or MX(More expensive than the others listed)Perhaps longer term investment,make big steps,not small upgrades.Works out more cost effective in the long run.
Good Luck and enjoy the journey.
yer I have some 805 sigs and they are rather nice. B&W suck at quality finishes on their speakers. The signatures are an exception though