Hi, Biscayne. It all depends. I own the newform ribbons and they cross over at 900 to the bass midrange peerless drivers....I've had them setup when you hear the speed of the ribbons not integrate well with the cones[nordost red dawn cable] Then I switched to mapleshade ribbon jumpers on the ribbon crossover and between the two cone drivers and used AZ satori single wire. Now the sound is very coherent from top to bottom. I do not biwire. So that's the challange. In theory a ribbon that has a low cross over[ say 200, should be more seamless but careful design[ crossover, etc, can make for good speakers. The drivers have to match extremely well....You can become addicted to ribbons, the sound is open, free in the air, boxless. I've never heard of anyone unhappy with the extension of ribbons. I'll be interested to hear from others on this...
Its not really relevant-obviously if its not reproducing a freq. it can't be accurate. But ribbons can go well above 20khz-the ravens go to about 35khz.
A while back there was a thread on new ribbons, like the Ravens. Not much interest. I wish someone could give us a review of the ESg 2&3's the Ravens, the Philips RT8 and RSQ8P/11's. Yes ribbons have been around forever you say , nothing new about ribbons. There must be some advances. There are the new better dome tweets. Some Agon member has the Raven 3's($3400/pr.!!) in a design. Wish he could give us the review.
The reason I asked is because I'm thinking about testing the Piega's and want to know if is going to be a waste of time. The dealer representative will bring them to my house so I can hook them up to a Rowland and Meridian combo. But, I figure why bother if ribbon's are not accurate.
Rory, I *think* the Piegas roll-off higher than 20kHz... (Heard the 10 once & was impressed, BTW.)
Also, I have not experienced any tonal/ phase/? inaccuracy listening to ribbon tweeters -- but that's just me, no ribbon "guru" here!
OTOH, is the Rowland wide-bandwidth? (I don't think so) Why worry about signals over 20-30kHz if the amp doesn't output them -- or am I missing something? Cheers!
Piega speakers extend to 47.5 k.
The lack of extension beyond 20khz isn't/shouldn't be an issue since less than 1% of the adult population can even hear above 20khz (or actually: 1% can hear to 25khz). The fidelity laws are still set at 20hz-20khz as being one of the the ideals for speakers. Your concern would be just with how they perform in the same territory-below 20khz. That being said, its really how well the technology was done-there are good ribbons and bad ribbons (e.g. single-ended). I would go ahead an audition the piega's. There's not alot of musical information above 20khz either. Some stuff like cymbals contain harmonics as high as 100khz and studies have show that when exposed to stimulus' above 20,000hz there is/was brain activity, but no listeners subjective evaluation was able to detect the stimulus even though it was happening to them. I don't think it would be "a waste of time." Ribbons can be good. If you don't like them it would probably be for all sorts of other reasons, like distortion levels or something. Listen to the Piega's and some other stuff in the same price range to get a feel for what you like. And don't feel pressured by the dealer even though he is doing something nice. Its an expensive purchase and you want to be happy with what you get-trust your instincts on it.
The Rowland extends from .1Hz to 160 kHz. However, I was curious about the range of the ribbon tweeters because I figured that distortion may become an issue if they have limited range.
Bis there are ribbons for $60/pr the Daytons. Then you've got the Raven 3's at $1700/EACH!!! Here is a list of some new tech ribbons. ESg2,3 Raven1,2,3 Philips RT8,RSQ8. I'm not sure which ribbons the Piega's use. Ezmer offers good advice, don't sign anything at the moment. Sleep on the decision a few nights. Read a bunch of threads and listen to as many speakers as you can in the next few months. Then you'll better your choice.
Piega uses their own driver which differs from others in several ways.It is a double density with a much more powerful magnet .It is quilted to act as a true piston and it has a true 4 ohm impedence.The driver extendes to over 47.5 k and is 96 db efficient.It is direct drive.The midrange driver is push pull and even more highly efficient also quilted and when wired together in the network presents a very easy load as well as being super reliable.They build all drivers in house and don't do oem like other mass builders.Check these speakers out as they are amazing.Room 604 and the Murry Hills suite b at The Home Entertainment 2002 on the 30 May through June 2 and in Greensboro at the Four Seasons hotel May 25th.Featured will be dvd audio like never heard before.
To put one of the contentions made above into the right perspective:
Experiments have shown that it is true of course, that you can hardly HEAR above 20khz and then only in your younger years. But subjects listening to MUSIC have complained of "something missing" in its representation, when everything above 20 khz was sharply cut off, even though they could not hear over 20 khz in an electronically induced single tone sweep from 20hz to 50khz. Unfortunately I have forgotten, where these findings were published. But the experiment, which has been repeated several times in different places, is quite well known and its findings are practically common knowledge by now.
I would encourage you to go ahead and audition the Piegas. I just bought the P10s and they are truly wonderful speakers. Better still, they are said to improve substantially after 300-400 hours of burn-in. If there is a better speaker at this price point, I would love to hear it.
There are 2 theories, one believes in "break in period", i'm in the other camp. Now most every tweeter/ribbon goes at least to 25K. After that i'm not interested. Most important to me are the fq's between say 60hz - 10 or 15K hz. In other words i prefer a superior driver making nice music in this range. So if a woofer goes to 20hz but sounds boomy or sloppy whats that to me. Same for a tweeter that goes to 30K but has little character with a metalic sound.?? 90% of the music ( classical) is in the mid bass to upper treble. Then the 20-40hz + 20K-25Khz make up the 9%. The 1% falls in the below 20 and above 25K. Those are rough figures but just to make a point.
Tweekerman, you're point about classical being in the mid bass to upper treble should mean that you want a speaker that can reach and cleanly deliver the high end. It goes back to the original question about the capacity of ribbon tweeters and whether they have the ability to accurately handle the high end. It looks like the answer is yes, but I suppose that primarily depends on the speaker. I'm probably going to ask the Piega rep bring over the speakers based on what I've read in this thread. Maybe the ribbons will sound harsh -- I'll probably find out soon.
Could it be that a tweeter with a range that extends beyond 20khz sounds more detailed and extended because it is working more comfortably within its range and not being affected by the mechanical limitations of the diaphragm. I would think that if a driver does not have that extention you could here the effects much lower in its response. Its like running a woofer a little too close to its upper limit. Also, HiVi (Swan) ribbons sound very nice and seem to be fairly durable. Dont know about others but the smaller HiVi goes down to 3,000 and the bigger to 1,700hz.
Every cone and ribbon tweeter i've seen goes to 25K+ hz's. As far as i'm concerned, there's no issue about any tweeter not hitting the upper reaches of fq's. How musical is a particular driver? That's the issue. But honestly you can ask 10 DIYer's and all will give you 10 different answers as to their favorite tweeter. BTW i just found out the Raven3 goes down to an incredible 500hz!!! But you got to pay for that: $3400/pr!! Next would come the ESg3 ribbon goes to like 1500hz.
The piega ribbon,mid system system in the c-40 plays from 350-47.5k.P-10 and 8 ltds & 5ltds from 450-47.5k and have a unique design differing from all other companies.