The VR5 uses a Scanspeak Revelator tweeter an Aerogel midrange and two 9" magnesium coned Excel woofers. So, while the Tyler Signature System and VR5 SE both use SEAS woofers, the Tyler uses 8" woofers and the Von Schweikert VR5 SE uses 9" woofers. Therefore the loudspeakers are not comparable from a standpoint of parts or price.
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If this is so as far as the comparison between drivers and price I do stand corrected. I was basing my review in what I was told at the many High End Audio Stores where I made my Auditions and where I was showing them the drivers used in the Tyler Lynbrook Signature Speakers and their VR-5 models. Actually I was told at these stores looking at the drivers used in the VR-5 that they were both the same exact drivers but again if this is not the case I stand corrected. The truth is that I spend a few hours listening to the VR-5's and although they are great speakers I just didnt feel satisfy with their sound. It could have been due to the fact of the equipment they were using and as well as the cables connected to these speakers. As you may know speakers have the tendency of sounding different from one system to another including using many different cables.
Again thanks so much for the correction on the drivers.
Good review. I agree with the comments on the Linbrook System (I own it as well). The 200 hours seems crazy, but I experienced the same thing... go figure. The speakers you auditioned were also on my list, except I auditioned the VR4SR and DB99 as opposed to the VR7s... I guess we pretty much were thinking alike. :-)
Glad you like your new Tylers. I also have them and have grown quite fond of them as well. Love'm with tubes!
FWIW, for those who may be considering the Tylers, I would point out that my break in experience with them was somewhat different that yours. Out of the box (less than 100 hours) I found the upper-mid range/highs very uneven and ragged. In fact I thought the speakers were going back to Tyler! I noticed after four or five days of continual running that the mid's and highs really smoothed out and now I consider this part of their sonic spectrum outstanding! I think another A'gonner articulated a similar experience in a Tyler post as well so new purchasers should be aware.
Enjoy your speakers. Unless you are really anal or you move to different quarters they should be your last. :-)
Thanks so much Drseid & Newbee for sharing your experiences about the Lynbrooks Signature Series. I also had the same experience with the upper-mid range. They did sound uneven and a bit dull but after the first 100 hours of break-in I started noticing a huge improvement. I decided to give it another 100 more hours before writing a review about them. These Speakers are here to stay for a long time since I feel that I have finally found the Sound and Performance that I have been looking for in a Truly High End Pair of Full Range Speakers. For those who will like to see the Lynbrooks in my System here is the link,
Carlos, I just looked at your photos. Do you have any flexibility regarding speaker placement etc. I suspect you could enhance the sound of your Tylers substantialy if you do. Post here, or send me an email if you are interested at all in my experiences in this regard and my observations regarding your present set up.
Thanks for the advice on the placement of the Speakers. Actually I only had them place like that while the break-in period was taking place. Righ now they are around 10 inches away from the back wall, toed in and 10 feet apart. My Room is 14 feet wide by 20 feet long with an 8 foot ceiling. I tried different placements but I found out that the way they are right now gives me the best soundstage.Thanks so much for the tip. By the way how do you have yours set up?
Carlos, FWIW, my room is 19.5x13.5x9 (close to your's in size). I have the speakers on the short wall 6'(measured from the front of the speaker) from the wall and each speaker (measured from the tweeter) is 2 feet from the side walls. On the left wall I have a window at the first reflection point on the right wall I have a 7x5' opening into a hall way. Behind the listening position I have another 7x5' opening into another room. My listening position is triangulated with the speakers and is 9'6" back from the plane of the speakers. Beacause of the 1st reflections issue on the left side and the open space on the right side I have found that crossing the axis of my speakers in front of my listening position worked best. I find that the crossing of the speakers axis' as I have done increases focus/center fill and widens the sweet spot. In fact, a person sitting directly in front of a speaker as opposed to the sweet spot still gets a fairly good stereo image. Good for company. Without toeing them in so far for the most part when you sit in front of one speaker most of what you hear is that one speaker. Pulling the speakers out into the room as far as I have greatly increase the sense of image depth, especially on the rear sides. If you have the space and no decorator critics to nag you, give it a try. :-)
Tvad if you do your research on Von Schweizkerts web site, you will see that you are mistaken. I had my doubts if VS used a different size mid than the LLS (Lin Sig Sys). And sure enough I was correct. If you go to the VR5 description , VS says we use the very same Excel mids as the VR9. s. Well the VR9's say "dual 8.5 mids" Which is the W22, the very sameExcel W18 in the VR5. Yes I see VS says '9 inch", but they are in fact wrong. Its 8.5, which is the excat size of the W22. Excel did not special make a slightly larger cone for VS. Now if you wish to write to Seas and ask them if infact its a special made mid for VS, please lets us know. If anyone cares to measure their VS mids and I the LSS owners here can meausre their W22's , you'll find it is the exact sae driver.
Carlos, congrats on your new speaker. I just did a short review on Audio aslyum and also here, a few weeks ago. Its a few pages back. My comments concur with yours and also the reviews from the links on Tyler's web site. Sally Renolyds made simulair comments on her review of Tyler's 3 ways, the Taylo's.
There is no denying the value of this speaker, and in fact all of Tyler's Seas/Excel speakers.
I have plans next yr to buy the LSS in Mahogany.
As Newbee points out it will most likely be my very last speaker I'll buy. I felt that way with my Seas Excel Thors, a MTM design, = to Tyler's LInbrook Sig Monitors. a MTM, W18/T25/W18. After hearing the LSS's I realize the lower bass I'm missing.
Thanks for your review, quite a system you have.
btw, though the LSS seems quite a demading speaker with 5 drivers/cabinet, the humble JOR drove the hefty LSS with authority. The JOR is rated at 40 watts. I've learned over the yrs, watts really is extremely relative. Its the build of an amp that determines power/dynamics produced.
Bartofan, I quoted the the specs from the speaker manufacturer's websites, therefore I cannot be mistaken. If I misquoted the specs, then I'd be mistaken.
Nevertheless, Tyler says they use an 8" SEAS woofer. You claim Von Schweikert uses an 8.5" woofer. 8" is not the same as 8.5". So, is Von Schweikert or is Tyler correctly stating the diameter?
Interestingly, Wilmslow Audio lists the SEAS Excel W22EX-001 as having a diameter of 221 millimeters, which equals 8.7"...neither 8" nor 8.5"...so who is correct?
The SEAS W22 is an 8" woofer, the SEAS W18 is a 7" woofer (and there are three versions on the Madisound website). Since there are three versions of a SEAS 7" driver, it seems likely to me that there is more than one version of the W22 8" driver.
Regardless of whether the ~8" drivers used in the VR5 SE and Tyler Linbrook Signature tower are the same, the remaining drivers used in the loudspeakers are not the same.
The VR5 SE uses a 7" Aerogel driver, not a 7" SEAS driver as used in the Tyler. Also, the VR5 SE uses a different tweeter than the Tyler, as I mentioned above.
So, while the 8"/8.5"/8.7"/9" driver discrepancy remains a question mark, the point of my post is consistent, which is that the VR5 SE does not use all the same drivers as the Tyler Linbrook Signature one piece tower loudspeaker, and therefore they cannot be compared apples to apples.
These Speakers Have a Very Deep and Well Defined Wide Soundstage.Perfect imaging, amazing clarity, large sound, good center image, transparent but tight and powerful bass.They have the ability to recreate the musical event in convincing fashion. Amazing Soundstage and seamless integration of sound through the entire audible spectrum. Warm, musical midrange, solid bass and smooth highs. Pinpoint imaging and soundstaging. As I have said before these are the most Dynamic,Clear,Detailed and Transparent Speakers I have come accross.
Thanks so much for your comments. I know you will be very happy with the Lynbrook SS when you get them. Please keep in touch and let me know of your experience when you get them. The Ribbon Mahogany Finish is Gorgous.
My Best Regards,
Carlos the only thing I would point out in your post above is that the Tyler LSS mids are 'warm'. They are not warm as how I understand the term "warm". I define warm as , "hazy/smokey/heavy/ veiled, as if the speaker itself is inside a box, which to me is distortion, offerings 'rough" musical image, fq's not cleanly/clearly diffentiated. Which amounts to fatigue after say a hours listening.
The Seas Excel drivers are in fact rather on the 'cold" side. But thats a good thing IMO, as the music is as you say, pinpoint/transparent(no cloudiness=warm).
Comparing my Thos MTM's with Tyler's top part, the MTM section. , I'd even say Tyler has his drivers slightly less "steely' than the Thors. The W18's and T25 have that "cold/steely" characteristic, which to me is the essense of dynamics. Any warm speaker, which most are, do not match the LSS is dynamics. Ty seems to have tamed them somewhat in his xover.
With my Thors, i can shake the walls with a Mississippi Bules cd I have. Yet I'm after that added bass of the dual W22's, only for the slight bottom end in orchestral. The W18's miss the lowest octaves.
With the LSS's dual 8's, there is absoluetly no need for a sub, offering the most delicate and controled bass I've ever heard.
I'd really love to have a look at the xover Ty designed for that 5 way. it'd really be interesting to see the components.
Everyone has a different definition of what "warms" means when it comes to sound. In my case when I mentioned that the mid's are warm I was refering to the fact that they are not bright and forward or mechanical sounding which is the case with some speakers. The sound coming from my LSS is neutral, Very Natural and has a nice warm sense to the music with a delicate and very detailed wide soundstage. The music is very well presented to you and not thrown at you as with some speakers. My definition of warm is when a speaker's sound tends to embrace you in such a way that you want to stay where you are listening for many hours. That's exactly the feeling that I get with the Lynbrook Signature Series. I honestly never got that feeling from other speakers that I have owned or Audition. Im not saying that there are not other speakers that can do exactly what the LSS do in my system but in the price range of these Lynbrook Signature series I strongly doubt that there is a speaker that can do the same. I love them every minute and the more I play them the better they sound. The Clarity and Detail combine with the the Beautiful low end extension and Wide Soundstage makes these speakers to be one of the most Musical Appealing Speakers out there!!!!
Carlos i totally agree with your review, after long hours of musical heaven i love my linbrooks and know where you are coming from, i can give you one more thing to put on your list of things to think about adding to your system, a first class analog front end, after adding that to my system i really found out what the linbrooks can do, the most incredible sounds abound, sweet and flowing, i just upgraded my cartridge and its like every step you take up the audio ladder the better it gets, i know some guys dont believe it but you really get what you pay for, and most of the time more money equals better performance, welcome to the Tyler club and many hours of musical heaven, mike
Yes, the Linbrook and any speaker that use Excel's are neutral. The description 'warm" is a s i describe above. Heavy, bloated midrange. This applies to almost every speaker I've auditioned in the past 10 yrs. It is extremely difficult for a driver's manufactuer to get rid of the dissonance in the voicing of the mids from a midwoofer. This is why the Dansih lab called seas spent decades developing their Excel line before releasing the driver on the open market. Though Seas makes dozens of midwoofers, none match the qualities exhibited by their Excel line. The Excel is recognized by a few european labs, also by the great speaker engineer, Linkwitz and also by the famous speaker maker Von Schweikert.
AFAIK only Tyler has configured this LSS design. How Ty came up with the xover in this 5 driver tower is something of miraculous feat, considering these drivers are notoriously known for being 'cranky', "not easy to tame'.
Here's the story of a little known DIYer in Kentucky develop[ing one of the world's greatest speakers.
I'd boubt even the europeans have matched what Tyler has done with the Excel line. Though I'm sure someone over there is about to copy his xover work. Hopefully Tyler has a patent on his designs.
Yes the LSS is "warm and very inviting", the listenings have you rediscover all your music in a new image.
Keep us posted in your equipmemnt upgrades. Those speakers are only limited by the associated equipment used.
btw pretty impressive array of equipment you have.
For source i have the cayin 17, with new Bugle Boy tubes/quad on the way. Not sure how the Cayin performs next to the MF. I'll take a look at it today.
btw I see you auditioned both the Von Schweikerts and the Theil's. I could audition the Theil's in Alabama.
I've heard the Legacy Whispers(audio store), Revel(New orleans audio club meeting, 3 yrs ago), B&W's(several models).
i would like to throw what i think the meaning of warm means in a total system IMHO, it means being able to listen for hours on end, with out fatigue, or drifting from the music, in my system my wife and i love music so much we can come home on any day get dinner down, and start playing music till we are ready for bed, my system has got that total realism that i have been looking for, and my Tylers contributed big time to the puzzle, i have been a music listener for a long time, back in the early days of hi fi as a kid with my parents fisher console stereo, this is where i caught the music bug, through systems i have had through the years including surround sound, thinking they were the answer for the realism, they were fine systems but i knew they were still missing that realism i knew was out there and i could afford, i am in a place now where i can really enjoy the sound of music for hours on end, any how thats what in think what warm means in a system, Beatles Sunday got to go have a good one, mike
Regarding the issue of warmth. FWIW, other speakers when set up in my room have a bit of a dip in the 200 hz range (without regard to cross over issues - one set are Quad 63's, the others are Paragon Jubilee/Jems which cross over at 400hz. The Tylers have a bit of a rise at 200hz - this is what I think gives them a sense of warmth absent in other speakers. I don't know if this is the result of the cross over frequency in the Tylers or if its due to the additional mid-range unit centered about 45' above the floor. I think it is the latter and that its low frequency sound is being reinforced by ceiling reflections. I arrive at that conclusion only because with a pair of 6'+ panels in the same location I have a 15db hump which disappears with a 200hz cross over and a seperate sub. My room has a 9' ceiling. I wonder if I would get the same measure result in a room with a much taller ceiling.
Other than that I think both Carlos and Stltrains have the Tyler LSS experience pegged. They are very revealing speakers with none of the downsides of high rez audiophile speakers (that I've heard lately). But then I enjoy listening to 'music'.............:-)
I agree with you 100% in your description of what you get from the Lynbrook SS of in terms of describing "warm". I get the same feeling and thus I spend many hours listening to these wonderful speakers.Actually today I had a few friends come over with their favorites Cds and we spent a few hours of critical listening and even my friends admitted to me that the Lynbrook Signature Series are the most "Revealing" speakers they have ever heard. One of them was so impressed by the realism of music that he wants to start saving money to purchase a pair ASAP.
Owners like Us attain to the many attributes of these speakers and therefore we love to write so much and let others know about our experiences with them.
Thank you Neweebe,Bartokfan,STltrains and all for your wonderful comments and experiences regarding these Remarkable Full Range Speakers and specially to Ty at Tyler Acoustics for making one of the Most Complete,Revealing,and Musical Appealing Speakers,
The Lynbrook Signature Series.
Regards to All,
Linbrook ownwers, I'm considering these or the II's as my next speaker purchase. My amp is the BAT VK-200. Is the 100watt/ch enough to drive these speakers, especially the I's with their multiple drivers? My previous amp was 200w/ch and the BAT 100w/ch is conservative.
Also, from the system pictures I see most have their Linbrook 1's near the rear wall. How's this working out?
More than enuf unless you're inviting early tinitus or deafness! :-)
I've recently acquired a set of 30 wt pp mono amps which easy accomplish the task of driving my One Piece Signature Systems. Previously I was using a set of 160 wt mono's to get the bottom end right, but clearly I no longer need the extra watts. I'm also using a second amp for a different front end which is an 80wt pp stereo amp which also has more than enuf balls and watts.
You should have no trouble using the BAT unless you have a large room and listen to music with an average sound level in excess of 90+ db's.
Good, I made a review of this speaker recently. It may be pages back. In my session I brought along a 40 watt tube amp and delivered bass with authority and dynamics in mids /highs. This is not a power hungry speaker , though it does look intimidating. The drivers specs say 87db, Ty has this 5 driver system xover so thats is 92 db. So its tube friendly to all tubes, except the low powered set of course. .
hey jack, i am using nuforce ref 9SEs, Ty has the linbrooks rated at four ohms, 92db, 50 to 300 watt power, the SEs are giving them 300 watts, my room is large at 20X30 with cathedral ceiling, the SEs are having absolutely no problem pushing my linbrooks, if you get the one piece it is vented from the front and you can place them closer to the wall, i have mine from the front of speaker to wall three feet away, get all of you info room size and amp info and give Ty a call he will surly take care of you, good luck and have a good labor day, mike
You will have no problem driving the Lynbrooks SS or the ll's with your BAT VK-200. I own the Parasound Halo JC-1 Monoblocks which put out 800 watts @ 4ohms and the first 25 watts in pure Class A when used in High Bias and I don't think I use more than 15 watts at moderate volume levels so your amplifier will have no problem driving these speakers.
By the way, BAT are very good high end amps!
Good luck with the speakers! Please let us know how it goes with them,
I am using the BAT VK-300XSE integrated amp, which is rated at 150 wpc into 8 ohms, and the match with the Signatures is pure synergy. I too have the 1-piece versions, and have them less than a foot from the back wall. The tubed preamp section of the XSE really helped move my system to a new level - extreme detail, yet delicate highs and no grain at all.
I currently bought a used pair of tyler LSS one piece from ty in rose wood which are beautiful! I'm using a esoteric dv-50s player, ARC LS25 mark2 pre & ARC 100.2 which is 100 into 8 oms 200 into 4 & 360 into 2. I'm using balanced interconnects and my speakers really sing with a little extra volume, but I use to drive a pair of Totem forrest speakers, 2 way 8 ohm and I've found that at lower volume I've lost some detail and imaging/ sweetness with my tys any advice would be greatly appreciated! Ron
I enjoyed your review of the Linnbrooks and your system looks very nice also. I don't agree to much with ("Bartokfan"s comment 8/30/06) early post regarding his belief on warmth, I agree with your thoughts of warmth.
Anyway I am looking at the Woodmere II's and was wondering if you heard these? The Linnbrooks I have heard many great comments on such as your comments.
Thanks for the review.