Review: Acapella Triolons Speaker


Category: Speakers

I currently own the Acapella Campanile Highs and have used them as a reference for about three years and hear Acapella Violins weekly at a friend's home. The remainder of the equipment and speakers were auditioned over a 30 hour, 3 day listening session. All amps mentioned and all equipment listed were listened to on the Triolons, carefully varying one component at a time with the Triolons remaining the one constant during the 3 days. The other speakers listed with the exception of the Campaniles and Violons were auditioned during the same weekend with the same equipment but for much shorter periods. The Coltrane Supremes were breaking in; the Coltranes were fully broken in.

The Triolons are an imposing sight. Two woofer towers, each 14" by 28" by 7' tall, each weighing 650# plus a cross piece holding a plasma tweeter attached to the woofers and a sword bearing two horn loaded speakers, one horn 30.5" in diameter, the other 18.5" in diameter. The Triolons can be driven by a single amps of 18 watts or higher power but must be triwired and have an efficiency of 97 db. Each side weighs 850# total. The crossover points are 200, 700 and 5000 hz.

The sound from 200 hz up to 40,000 hz emanates as a spherical wavefront. The Campanile Highs are similar but crossover to their woofers at 500 hz, use the plasma tweeter plus a single horn and are much lower in efficiency (92 db). The Triolons are typically a 6 ohm speaker but have an impedance at 30 hz of 28 ohms. The same is true of the Campaniles. Neither is a particularly easy load for an amp to drive; however the greater efficiency of the Triolons does open up the possibility of driving them with the right low power amplifier.

In my experience it takes a high power, high current, low output impedance amp to make the Campaniles come alive, with the exception of the Einstein OTL's which are used at the Acapella factory and do an admirable job of driving both speakers. The Triolons are much easier to drive than the Campaniles, but also more revealing of the associated equipment used to drive them. Different combinations of equipment resulted in different tradeoffs. Generally, the more expensive set ups involved fewer tradeoffs.

Another Audiogon poster has developed a nomenclature characterizing various pieces of equipment using the terms "workhorse", "realistic", and "magical", with magical suggesting that the system does some things so well that it results in a suspension of reality - you are no longer listening to reproduced sound in your room, but are somehow transported to the event. I have a bad tendency to think/listen in terms of how well a system does certain things and how well it avoids doing things which irritate me, which is to say that I have a bad tendency to focus on the pieces rather than the whole. In those rare instances when a system is so good that I stop analysing the sound and just listen to the music, then I know that something is right.

I am told that my initial reaction to listening to music on the Triolons was to stop talking and get a silly grin on my face. I don't know about the goofy grin but I do know that I did not say a word until the piece of music ended. If you know me, that says alot. I have now lived with the Campanile Highs for a number of years and they are by a significant margin the best speaker that I have ever owned. They are a difficult speaker to make work properly. They require a large room and are hard to drive. Amps that drive the woofers well do not ever seem to work as well on the midrange horn and plasma tweeters. The happy medium is either the best solid state amp which you can find or an OTL with at least 60 real watts of power (read the Einstein). The two types of amps sound different on the Campaniles and have different strengths and weaknesses.

The prime goal of the Acapella design team on the Campaniles was to get the best match between the woofers and the midrange horn and not the most extended bass response (the Campaniles are reasonably flat down to about 40 hz but drop off rapidly after that).

All of this is a prelude to talking about the sound of the Triolons. What makes the Triolons special? In many systems the soundstage is either localized between the inside edges of the speakers or perhaps extends to the outside edges of the speakers. With the Campaniles and the right equipment you can get a soundstage that extends from wall to wall and has excellent depth. Focus and image specificity are good but never pinpoint. Image size is believable, i.e. no sopranos with mouths the size of a baby grand. If the Campaniles have a problem in this area, it is that without proper set up and the right equipment some frequencies can localize on the horns. This is most problematic during the time when the speakers are breaking in but can happen with the wrong wire or associated equipment and is set up dependent.

The Triolons create a massive soundstage with huge amounts of air and space. The sidewalls of the room from the plane of the speakers and the back wall disappear. Instead of recreating the recorded venue in your room, the room no longer seems part of the equation. Its almost as if the space where the event occurred is appended to the end of your room and the recorded event is occurring there ( note that this is only true with certain recordings made in large halls and properly recorded and not with every piece of music played or with all associated equipment or wire). Imaging and focus are quite good but edges are a bit diffuse as in real life. Images are very three dimensional and fully fleshed out

A friend is driving Watt/Puppy 6's with MacIntosh 501's. This combination has great punch in the midabss. My Campaniles with my equipment never had this degree of punch in the midbass. With the Triolons this is no longer the case. Their midbass is extremely detailed, fast and well controlled with excellent slam.

The Campaniles will play loud and are very dynamic from pp to fff. The same is true of the Triolons but much more so. The Triolons significantly extend the dynamic envelope with excellent microdynamics and crescendo's capable of rattling walls, all with a vanishingly low level of distortion. Detail retrieval, particularly low level ambient detail is phenomenal. I am simply hearing low level detail that I never knew existed on familiar pieces.

The Triolons are very coherent and seamless. They have an effortlessness that is reminiscent of the Goldmund Reference TT which I owned for several years. Images have a solidity and three dimensionality. In comparison to the bass of the Campaniles, the bass of the Triolons is tighter, better controlled, goes lower with more authority and is faster with greater retention of harmonics. More importantly, by pushing the horn technology down to 200 hz and dividing the range between 200 hz and 5000 hz so that it is handled by two horns, there is a significant lowering of intermodulation distortion that effects the entire range. Acapella has been able to do this in such a manner that the two horns act almost as a single unit. You cannot pick out the crossover point and there are no discontiuities as the sound moves between the horns. Bells and other percussive instruments have a steep leading edge with a with a natural reverberrant tail. In this area, the Triolons remind me of the Colibri cartridge. Voices are a joy on this speaker, both male and female. The plasma tweeter remains the best high frequency driver that I have heard and that includes the superb diamond tweeters used in the Martens and Kharma's.

Finally, a word about amps used during auditioning. All the amps mentioned at the end of this review were excellent. For my particular tastes the Lamm ML2 at 18 watts and the Audionote Kegon at 20 watts stood out. I hope to have a pair of the Einstein 60 watt OTL's sometime this spring for comparison. Note that the Edge Reference was also excellent at significantly more power. With the Triolons, it is more the quality of the amplification than the power (although 18 to 20 watts is a minimum). Also note that the Jorma Prime cabling proved an excellent match for the speakers, although the Valhalla speaker cable was excellent. With solid state amps, particularly the Edge Sigs, a tube linestage sounded best.

My listening preferences are about 50% classical, the remainder jazz, acoustic and 60's and 70's rock. One CD that served as a reference for system changes was the soundtrack from American Beauty, particularly the first two tracks. We also played a number of Verve recordings from the 50's, rock from the 60's and 70's and quite a bit of voice.

Ultimately the enthusiasm for a product reviewed is best determined by whether or not the reviewer is significantly enough effected by the product reviewed to buy it. I am currently working on arrangements to buy the Triolons.

Associated gear
Audio Aero Prestige SACD
EMM Labs Drive and C/A
Edge Reference and Signature 1 amps
Lamm ML1.1 mono's and ML2 mono's
AudioNote M10 linestage and Kegon amps
Nordost Valhalla interconnect and speakerwire
Jorma Prime interconnect and speakerwire
HRS bases and couplers
Shunyata Anaconda power cords

Similar products
Acapella Campanile Highs
Acapella Violon Highs
Marten Coltranes and Coltrane Supremes
Soundlabs Ultimate 1's
fcrowder

Showing 16 responses by fcrowder

Some additional technical information: the crossover point from the woofers to the midrange horn for the Campanilies is 700 hz so that the frequency range from 200-700 hz is being handled by the four 10" SEAS drivers which also handle the lower frequencies. The same 200-700 hz range in the Triolons is covered entirely by the 30.5" horn. This difference has major consequences in the sound of the two speakers as detailed in the review. The impedance curve for the Triolons is essentially 5 ohms from 100 hz up to the limits of audibility; however, there is a very narrow Q peak at 30 hz of 28 db which rapidly decreases to 1.9 ohms at about 70 hz and then flattens out to 5 ohms by 100 hz which makes the Triolon very amp sensitive, particularly below 100 hz.
As I mentioned in the body of the review, I was able to hear the Triolons with a variety of front ends, amplifiers and cables and to hear a number of other speakers driven by various combinations of the same equipment. This marathon listening session is more fully detailed at www.audiofederation.com/blog/ which includes pictures of the Triolons and some of the other equipment; consequently, no real point would be served in rehashing the same information. However, I would like to make several observations on the amps used with the Triolons and the effect that the amp used ultimately had on the sound.

Edge Electronics NL Reference "paramid" 800 watt solid state amps: the Reference was tubelike (here I mean classic tube sound). The highs were somewht soft, the bass somewhat less controlled, particularly from the mid bass down, very sweet and three dimensional with good detail and transparency and excellent dynamics. There was a tremendous sense of air and space. Image height was excellent. This was one of only two amps that made the side and back walls disappear. Imaging was never pinpoint but was very natural. This was one of my favorite amps on the Triolons, even though most of the other amps were more neutral. Think big and lush and fun to listen.

Edge Electronics Sinature One (400 watts): more detailed than the NL Reference, tighter bass, more accurate frequency response, more transparent but unable to recreate the sense of air and space that the NL Reference amps created. Lower image height, smaller soundstage, more pinpoint imaging but not as lush as the NL Reference. Very accurate but not as emotionally involving or fun.

Lamm ML1.1 90 watt push pull amps: closest sonically to the Edge NL Reference, but with flatter frequency response, but less power in the bass. The bass is tighter than that of the NL Reference. The ML1.1 has a better sense of depth and imaging than the Edge Signatures and a better sense of air and space but the air and space never equalled that of the NL Reference. This was a very nice amp and the best bargain of the amps used on the Triolons. This amp uses solid state rectification. Never as emotional or lush as the Edge NL. The micro dynamics were exceptional.

Lamm ML2 monos, 18 watts per channel, single ended, tube rectification: these amps are extremely dimensional with an excellent sense of air and space; very good in differentiating drum heads; excellent image height; very delicate and extended top end; very harmonically neutral; really glorious midrange; not quite enough power on big music like The Gladiator, but otherwise glorious; very clean with vanishingly low distortion; very sophisticated and emotional. Clearly and by a fairly significant margin, the best amp on the Triolons of the ones mentioned thus far.

Audio Note Kegon amps, 20 watts, single ended, tube rectification: clearly and by an audible margin the best sound heard on the Triolons during the entire listening session. How can a 20 watt tube amp have better control of the bass of the Triolons and better micro and micro dynamics than the two Edge solid state behemouths? This was the best bass of any of the amps auditioned, effortless. There was not a single area in which the other amps beat the Kegon. A truly synergistic match for the Triolons. I was told by the owner that the magic was in the silver wire transformers.

Further thoughts: I hope to hear the Einstein 60 watt mono OTL's in the spring.





I travelled to Sacramento on Sunday to help uncrate/set up my Campaniles in the home of the audiophile who bought them. This allowed me to finalize the purchase arrangements for the Triolons which should arrive sometime after CES. This also allowed me to hear the Campanile Highs in another system which in some ways was very different from mine. The components in the buyer's system included the latest versions of the Zanden transport and D/A with the latest clock, Levinson 33 amps, an Audio Research Ref 3, Transparent Opus interconnect and speakerwire, a Krell subwoofer, and a full Isoclean AC set up in a room about 30% larger than my listening room.

The Krell is extremely flexible and crossed over at 60 hz mated seamlessly with the Acapella's. The Levinson amps also mated exceptionally well with the speakers as did the Opus speakerwire. The 33's tonal balance (at least in this system) was different from that of the Parasound JC-1's, more biased toward the midbass, darker, richer but not as extended at the very top, somewhat slower and less detailed but with excellent depth and good focus. All in all the amps and the rest of the system complimented the sound of the Campanile's.
After many months of weather induced delay, the freight company delivered my Triolons last Saturday (3 very large crates, 2@200# each and one at a whooping 1500#). The crates are currently in my garage awaiting the piano movers who will come in this weekend and move the speakers into the house. Given that each of the woofer towers weighs 650#, this seemed prudent. Hopefully I will be able to get the Triolons up and running over the weekend.
The Triolons are designed to be tri-wired and can be tri-amped. Herman recommends the tri-wiring over tri-amping if a single amp will drive the speakers properly. I have three pairs of the Isoclean Super Focus on hand and will initially be tri-wiring with those cables; however, that will be a target for further experimentation. Again, initially, I will be using a pair of modified Parasound JC-1's to drive them; however, this is a very short term solution as there are much better amps out there for these speakers. I auditioned the Triolons with Audio Note Kegons and was very impressed with that combination. I would also like to hear the Einstewin 60 watt OTL and the Ayre MX-R amps on them. Needless to say it will take a while to recover from the initial cash outlay on the Triolons. I think that I will be very happy with them and hope that you and Albert and other interested members can visit me in the future when they have been optimized. Thanks again for your past kindnesses.
It has been an incredibly hectic 48 hours! Four piano movers arrived at my home about 8 AM Sunday morning and proceeded to move the assorted boxes that constitute the Triolons into my listening room. On Saturday I had carefully measured and taped the positions of the speakers because I figured that once bolted together, there was little chance that I would want to move these 850# monsters. The speakers were positioned much as they had been at Mike and Neli's: front inside corners 73" apart, back corners about 79" and about 60" from the back wall with the back of the listening chair about 12' from the front of the speakers. Surprisingly this turned out to be a really good location and allowed about 36" from the outside edge of each speaker to the side wall. The speakers made it into the house safely without incident. It took most of the remainder of the day to rehook up the system. Then it was time to fire everything up! The ion tweeters which positively loathe travelling would not come on. At this point, I decided to give myself a rest and wait until the next day to troubleshoot the tweeters since the most likely scenario was that FedEx had dropped the wooden shipping crates and dislodged a tube. I also decided to await on Neli's arrival to help [she had been at an audio show in Dallas over the weekend, so the timing was great]. I should also note that disassembling the tweeters is tedious and getting the metal cages back together is similar to a Rubik's cube.

Neli arrived the next day after lunch. We pulled the tweeters and proceeded to disassemble them. As predicted the Siemens PL509 driver tube in each tweeter had been dislodged. After putting the tube back in the socket and putting back on the anode cap, both tweeters were now working but were a bit spitty as they burned dust from their combustion chambers. We then put everything back together and began a listening session that lasted until midnight.

Initial listening was with an Esoteric X-01 D2 with a variety of classical and female vocals. The sound was very good with excellent depth and detail, but never magical. Two significant changes were made, i) hooking up my Saturn A55 subs and ii) switching to the Rockport turntable. The subs blended seemlessly with the Triolons and added the bottom octave which the speakers just cannot produce without augmentation. The turntable was revelatory, think jaw dropping. Now there was magic! We played mostly Decca 2000's and 6000's with one or two re-issues such as Sounds Unheard OF.

Further thoughts: The Triolons are a significant improvement over the Campanile Highs. They are much more detailed without being bright or strident, the micro and macro dynamics are vastly superior and the bass, particularly from 170 to 700 where the largeer horn operates instead of a dynamic woofer is superb; faster tighter, better controlled and much better integrated with the smaller horn and tweeters. Unfortunately, the Triolons' resolution is a two edged sword and tends to magnify problems with other components. The Parasound JC-1's are actually doing a much better job than I had expected. They are excellent at controlling the SEAS woofers, fast, detailed and clean. They do lack a bit of harmonic richness and texture in comparison to something like the Kegons and they do have the least amount of whiteness in the upper mids and lower treble. Likewise, I clearly need to experiment with my current cabling (Crystal Reference) which may be contributing to what I am hearing.

All things said, I am extremely happy with the Triolons!
A short update: The Triolons sound significantly more like real instruments played in a real space than the Campaniles with an incredible amount of new detail on cd's and records which I had not heard with the Campanile Highs. This greater resolving power has a down side in that it very quickly reveals weaknesses in associatewd components. As a friend said,"I have never particularly liked the JC-1's when I have heard them at CES particularly on Soundlabs; however, I can now understand what you see in them. They are doing an excellent job of controlling the woofers and are very detailed with a large soundstage and wonderful depth. There is still a slight roughness in the upper mids/lower treble that I can hear but the Bybees and other changes to your JC-1's have significantly ameliorated that roughness. They still do not have the bloom or harmonic complexity of a really good tube amp." Much more so than the Campaniles, the Triolons highlight weaknesses in the other parts of the reproduction chain. I think that this is a long way of saying that I will eventually replace the amps but that is a lower priority than changing the cabling to something with more body than the Crystal Reference.
Your speakers are in my mind a credable alternative to the larger Acapella's, particularly in a smaller room. They certainly can sound excellent with the right associated equipment. Unless your tweeters have beem modified they use a European connector and the wire that was provided bythe manufacturer. This has two real downsides: i) the connector (AC) female on the amp includes a Corecom filter which is very poor quality. The connector should be repalced with a good quality IEC which will allow you to use a much betterpower cord. Only at that point does it make sense to buy an outboard filter. Note that the IEC is a drop in fit that requires no metal work to the case.
I probably should have said that the plasma tweeters should never be used without some sort of AC line filter as that will void the warranty and may lead to damage to the tweeters. The Corecom filter in the IEC is a very cheap filter but does protect the tweeters. Likewise the wire provided with the speakers works but is not ideal. Acapella sells a replacement byt it is very expensive.
There is a review of the Triolons and my system at http://www.dagogo.com/Spotlight/AcapellaTriolon-Crowder.html. I will be responding later this week. I have also just inserted Jorma No. 1 bi-wire speaker cables on the Triolons and will be commenting on the Jorma vs the Isoclean on the Triolons.
In response to the Dagogo review mentioned above, I posted the following letter to Constantine:

How does one respond to a review of ones own system, when you do not really disagree with any of the conclusions reached? I could say that I find the picture of me on page 3 to be somewhat less than flattering, but then again, it is a pretty accurate depiction. I would, if possible, like to clarify some of the points made:

Imaging: the Triolons in my room would probably benefit from slightly increasing toe-in; however, no multi driver system of this complexity, regardless of design, will image like a small monkey coffin. Inversely, monkey coffins will never move the amounts of air or properly produce the soundstage of an orchestra playing Mahler at full tilt. I agree with Ryan that the imaging of the Triolons is more akin to what I hear at a live musical event.

Amplifier Choice: Ryan characterizes these speakers as having a benign sensitivity plot. Assuming that we are talking about sensitivity, he is correct. At 94-97 db, there are quite efficient. Unfortunately, if we are speaking about the ability of an amp to drive these speakers, the sensitivity is misleading. The factory provided an impedance plot by frequency of the speakers. The plot from 40 hz to 40,000 hz is literally a straight 4 ohms; however, there is an impedance spike at 28 hz of 30 ohms. As one might guess, the choice of amplifier is critical to the bass performance. Note that the Campaniles have almost exactly the same impedance curve. Most tube amplifiers, including the Wolcotts (which are capable of 300 watts with the right NOS tubes) do not do a very good job of controlling the bass or driving the speaker. Most transister amps leave something to be desired driving the horns and tweeter. I have heard the Triolons with the Edge Reference and Signature 1.1's, the Lamm ML 1.1 and ML 2.1's and the Audio Note Kegons as well as the JC-1's. Strangely enough, the best combination, thus far, has been the Kegons closely followed by the ML 2.1's at 22 and 18 watts respectively. Bass was clearly not a problem with the Kegon or for the most part with the ML2.1's. The JC-1's do a better than adequate job but are not even close to the Lamms or Audio Note or for that matter the Einstein OTL's; however, the area in which the JC-1's excel is in driving the low end. Check back to a description of the power supply of these amps and the current capacity.

Bass Extension: In speaking with the designer of the Triolons, his goal was never to plumb the depths of the bottom end. It was to make this speaker with its multiple dissimilar drivers coherent. I believe that he has been successful. If you examine the two more expensive Acapella speakers, you will note that the Excalibur has a larger bass horn that allows a lower cross over point and uses 15" woofers. The top of the line Spharons use a horn loaded woofer built into the room; however, I doubt that it has much extension below 30 hz; yet in terms of sound, it probably far exceeds the Excaliburs. In addition to the Acapella's, I have two of the 21" Cabasse Saturn A55 woofers which are the best that I have ever heard. I mention this as I seldom feel that need since the arrival of the Triolons to turn them on.

Wiring Choices: Talking with Brian Ackermann, the hierarchy for the Triolons (i.e. best sound) in order of best to least is: i) bi-amp and tri-wire, ii) single amp, tri-wire, iii) single amp, bi-wire, iv) single amp, single run of speakerwire. In particular, the use of bi-wiring on the single amp makes a significant difference in bass control and extension.

Cross over: Ryan states incorrectly that there is no crossover between 170 and 5000 hz. There is one at 700 hz. Apparently, it is not audible.

In closing, I would like to thank Dagogo for a review that captures much of what has made these speakers special.
For further thoughts on the Triolons in a different system and with decidedly different electronics, see Constantine Soo's Dagoggo review of Brian Ackermen's system at http://www.dagogo.com/Spotlight/6DaysOfLivingWithAcapella.html.
There has been some discussion about whether these speakers represent the state of the art or whether they are merely expensive. While it would be easy for me to assure you that they are in fact "the real deal", that is never a very satisfying option and never really answers the question. Fortunately, two different things are bebinning to happen: 1) reviews by the magazines (which some will say really mean little, and more importantly, 2) each of you can hear the speakers for yourself with excellent associated equipment at Rocky Mountain Audio Fest and draw your own unbiased conclusions. The speakers will be shown in a large first floor room that in the past was used by Jonathan Tinn. If you make it to the show please make a point of stopping by and after you return home return here and post your impressions (good or bad). I will be at Rocky Mountain and hope to meet many of you to talk about music and the crazy world of audio.
Al, If you have the time could you comment on the ability of the Einstein amps to drive the Triolons and your experience with single vs bi-wiring?
Doc, I really look forward to your thoughts but completely understand. It is critically important that you bi or tr- wire with the same cables. Mixing and matching leads to bad results. I recently tried a combination of Jorma No. 1 to the horns and Acapella La Musika to the woofers and tweeter. It was a complete disaster and destroyed the coherence that the speakers normally exhibit. Two pairs of identical Isoclean Focus wires worked much better. Conversely the combination of the Jorma bi-wire with the Isoclean Super Focus worked reasonably well (the best combination thus far). A friend tried Valhalla and Jorma with negative results. I am hoping to soon hear the Triolons with all Jorma wiring and with all La Musika wiring and will probably have more to say at that point.
A few additional thoughts based on changes to my system in the past months and what I heard at the RMAF. About two months ago, I changed my speaker cabling from the very good Isoclean Focus and Super Focus to the Jorma No. 1, substituting a single wire run to the woofer/tweeter and a bi-wire run to the horns. As it turned out the combination of the Jorma cabling and the change from bi-wire to tri-wire resulted in a very nice improvement in the sound of the system. While there was certainly a decrease in noise and an increase in inner detail, the real improvement was a degree of coherence throughout the trequency range, an increase in liquidity and an increase in texture and timbre. I was impressed enough with the Jorma to order a pair of Prime interconnects to run between my amp and preamp.

This was followed by a trip to RMAF where I was able to hear two excellent but very different amps (FM Acoustics and Einstein OTL's) driving respectively Campanile Highs and Triolons. Likemany of you, I find certain things that I like about using a really good transistor amp on the speakers, particularly with respect to bass contol, bass slam, dynamics and top end extension, but am willing to sacrifice some of this and accept the somewhat looser (some would argue more acccurate bass)that is produced by the Einstein OTL's if that means that I get the top end and midrange of the OTL's.

Although I have not decided which direction to go, I am currently leaning toward purchasing the Einstein OTL's. I thought that it might be interesting in posting some thoughts about the sound of the Einstein mono's driving the Triolons at RMAF.

As to the sound: The amps are very clean and excellent at creating the the well defined leading edge of struck instruments that characterizes a live performance. This is particularly evident with percussion instruments and with the piana which in my experience after the human voice is the hardest instrument to recreate in a believeable manner. Massed strings are also equally good. Decay of instruments is captured in a way that is lifelike and natural. I find it rare that a piece of electronics is equally good at capturing the leading edge and also the decay of sounds. Most seem to favor one over the other.

Human voice is well served, particularly female voice. Herman Winters must have a love or opera as he always brings a treasure trove of opera recordings to shows.

Bass is very different from that produced by a large transistor amp, a little bigger and less controlled with somewhat less impact but more organic and closer to the sound of acoustic instruments in a real space. This is probably not the combination for producing synthesized bass at high volumes, but otherwise is excellent.

As I said in another post, the sound was excellent on Sunday. At least in the RMAF room (which was very large and had an acoustic tile ceiling, a bit more power would have ocassionally been nice but not if it had come at the expense of what the amp was doing in other areas.