Revel speakers - dealer scuttlebutt


Hi - I recently heard 2 speakers in the Performa3 line and was very impressed.  Reading about the company' s research efforts and scientific approach to design furthered by respect for Revel's products.  As I'm in the middle of a speaker search I happened to mention to a audio dealer hearing Revel speakers and my favorable experience.  He doesn't carry Revel and wrote to  me that he heard that they are having financial problems and will be dropping Revel.   This doesn't make sense to  me and I couldn't find any news that backs up his statement.  Does  anyone know  anything about this?  Is it just the dealer's "sour grapes"

thanks!
newton
Crap dealers have been saying things like this about products they don’t carry. It is as old as sales.  

Good dealers will say instead, “they make a good product, but I believe xxxx that we carry is better, would you like to hear them.”
Samsung bought harman this year, maybe last so there may be some speculation but I agree dealers have no incentive to promote brands they don’t carry.
 That said I owned 3 different pairs of revels, 1 performa 2 and both salon 1 and 2 and the consistent theme was how amplifier sensitive they are. With bottom  and front ported speakers there’s less room reinforcement in the bass and for stereo playback keeping them away from side walls also can make them sound light weight in comparison to previous models. Just saying, I would get a home demo before buying new.
Rule #1
Never mention a speaker you like to a dealer that doesn't sell them.

I know it sounds trite but it never ends well. I suppose it depends somewhat on the dealer. I know I have done it and it was a lead balloon each time.

Best to keep the scope of your search under your hat when visiting
Brick and Mortar dealers after all they are in some cases struggling to make sales. 

Just my 2 Cents 


Appreciate  your comments. Dougstat you are right --- I learned a lesson.  My situation is that I'm looking for new speakers, and have come to like the Revel floorstanders.  I went to the Harmon store in my city and heard the F228BE.  Not having had floorstanders in a long time (and using bookshelf speakers in my 15 by 21 ft apartment living room, I thought to play it conservatively and start with the F35 and work my way up the line (could go to the F228BE (or maybe the F226BE).  
the floorstanders are awesome, buddy runs a pair w fleawatt Eico and sonics within reason db wise are to die for....

You might try the F36 in that room, they will have a bit more bass extension and capability. The F36 is a great speaker, I ran a set last year while having my Magnepans rebuilt. Nicely balanced, good bass extension (found them adequate without a subwoofer which I normally use) and frankly, if I was told that they were the only speakers I could have, would be perfectly satisfied.  I just like my Maggies better.  
samsung has a market cap of 200 billion, so i suspect they could support revel if they chose. it may be they decided the line wasn't profitable, but it's more likely the dealer was talking out of his heinie.
I don't trust ANY dealer or manufacturer (be it audio, automobiles, appliances, sporting goods, etc.) who would badmouth his competition.

Once I hear that crap my money goes flying out the door never to return. How stupid (or desperate) can some of these people be?

And I don't mind telling these fools why they lost my business. Not even a tiny bit.
 If you don’t know the dealer well enough that you are asking us, then you cannot take what he says at face value. Wish I didn’t think so, but experience tells me otherwise. 
I don't trust ANY dealer or manufacturer (be it audio, automobiles, appliances, sporting goods, etc.) who would badmouth his competition.

Once I hear that crap my money goes flying out the door never to return. How stupid (or desperate) can some of these people be?

The ironic part is that good dealers (regardless of the product) don't need to badmouth their competitors.  Good dealers can sell on their merits (experience, knowledge, stability).  When I lived in Oregon, I had a great dealer who knew my preferences.  On one product, they flat out told me that I would prefer the competitors product.  Guess who always got my business and my recommendations for others.  That dealer is still in business 20 years later.  
I've known two dealers that always dealt honestly with their patrons and many more that did not. If you are scraping to put food on the family table you will do almost anything to make a sale. It is just the way we are when survival is involved. So unless you are friends it is always wise to treat these situations with a degree of mistrust. The line that works for me is, "I'm not ready to buy today I'm just doing my research." Big smile then keep your mouth shut. The salesperson will come back with something like," we have this one pair with open boxes that we can sell you for a discount." Just smile, shake your head and keep your mouth shut. Never buy anything from a Human who is trying to sell you anything be it in a store or on TV. 
Your experience is kind of what I had when I went to a dealer near me.
He had Golden Ear, but I told him I remembered Vandersteen and liked them.
He said: 'Vandersteen is old tech'.
When I auditioned the Golden Ear and said I didn't care for them, he said:
'How can you? They are the Best Rated speaker out there.

Needless to say, I didn't go back.
IMHO, If you have a dealer badmouthing a brand, stay away.
B
Revel just announced multiple new models at CEDIA. That doesn't happen for brands Harman intends to drop. If they go year after year without any releases or updates... that's when a product line is in trouble. You can also normally find industry news when major brand designers are let go. Notice that Digitech (a Harman pro brand) hasn't released or updated a product in years, and they let go of the primary product designer. The brand is still around, but it's dead in the water as far as new development. Products will be sunset as their product costs go up and sales go down over time. Same would happen in luxury audio (Revel's division). 

All of the Revel designers have been retained since Samsung's ownership (to my knowledge), no revel products have been discontinued, and new products have been announced. That brand is doing just fine. 
I'm with Bob on this.  I only will deal with dealers who are honest.  Rutan at Audio Connection and I speak about a ton of gear.  Most of it is stuff he doesn't carry.  As he often says, I like X product, but it's difficult to sell for various reasons.  

Dealers are in business to make money.  You can easily make a great living and still be very honest and have fun.  

As for Revel, I haven't heard them in ages.  A former dealer of theirs actually said the same as posted above (they are going out of business). It wasn't sour grapes as we are very close (since 78) and often talk about companies (audio fun talk like here).  I highly doubt that Samsung would let Revel fold.  They are too good and their name is thought of as making a nice product.

All - likely will not engage in discussing with dealers brands they don't carry.  John Rutan is  excellent ---- A great ear and trustworthy.  Independent research --- Audiogon, magazines, friends, etc.  all help with  providing useful information  to inform buying decisions.   Many thanks!
A lot of dealers used to intensely dislike the CEO of Harman and had lots of bad things to say about Revel/JBL/Levinson.  I doubt the move to Samsung improves peoples perspectives.  Since they moved their products to on-line retailers like Crutchfield it gets worse.  

Saying Harman/Revel is having financial concerns is odd and likely the dealer is hoping you don't know it is owned by Samsung.  Given Harman made a strategic decision to go all in on Revel and JBL at the expense of Infinity, seems unlikely Samsung is going to kill that brand without making efforts to revitalize it.  Not that I actually think it is having any issue given the recent launch and now expansion of the PerformaBEs.  

Likely a rumour started to disparage a very effective competitor to many companies.  
I had the Revel F208s' nice fit and finish but in the end I found another brand that far surpassed them in detail, dynamics and soundstage. The brand is not"mainstream" that I currently have now plus they are not that much more than the F208s.
Just my 2 cents.
Happy Listening
Mark
I was wondering why Revel hadn't introduced a new Ultima line after what is now 11 years.  They haven't introduced a top of the line speaker since 2008.  And suddenly you see their Ultima 2 line all over the net.  Curious.
It may be "all of the above".

I have no knowledge about Samsung’s business plans but remember that Samsung bought Harman International mainly for their car audio business. In that way, Revel might have been just bundled with what was an actual interest. In relatively similar cases, companies have tried to sell brands they were not interested in. It would not be too surprising to see Revel being for sale at some point. As Revel salesman in their company showroom told me when we talked about this..."Hopefully not to some hedge fund". A bit more optimistically, he was preparing to go to some meeting in California to discuss some new (?) items. It was some months ago.

Ever since this Samsung acquisition, I have been wondering if the quality of materials and craftmanship will decrease. Kind of like a "they don’t make them like they used to". Does anyone have any comparison?
Harman isn't known for selling off brands. They do have a history of buying brands for tech and then killing off the brand slowly. Samsung is letting Harman continue to operate on it's own much more than many of it's past acquisitions (at least for the foreseeable future). 
But when it comes to "they don't make them like they used to" - Harman certainly does water down products. Most of the flagship stuff maintains the highest quality, but the entry level gets heavily watered down. 

As far as Samsung buying for the car business, that was the big headlines on the PRs because media cycles were pumping autonomous driving heavily at the time, and that was Harman's fastest growing business segment. The fact of the matter is Samsung makes screens and computer chips, and Harman makes audio processors and transducers. It really was a nice pairing as far as owning production and outsourcing less pieces go. 
I never realised how many companies are now in that group.
 Samsung is defiantly a power house in entertainment they seem to have every angle covered now. 

Harmon group: 
AKG, Harman Kardon, Infinity, JBL, JBL pro, JBL synth, Lexicon, Mark Levinson, Revel, AMX, Crown, Martin, Soundcraft, Studer, BSS, DBX, DigiTech, Arcam. 

Studer surprised me the most. 

Starting to be only a few true companies now with all the "groups" buying up our traditional audio companies.  

sort of scary really as most of the smaller Audio companies are a 1-2 person show and when they leave - pass on -retire the companies sputter and die. That only leaves the large groups with their for profit models and their lack of true connection to the products they sell left as a main stays. No wonder products from many of the companies in these large groups are sort of lifeless products that ride on the previous good names of the designers. 

As for the car market I agree there, they seem to be more concerned as to how we can plastering a brand name on a cars audio system to help sell cars make a profit from branding. 


Samsung is defiantly a power house in entertainment they seem to have every angle covered now.
Look at it this way, Samsung now is making all the parts for the experience. Everyone hates on Bixby in their smartphones (because it sucks still), but if they get that right down the road they’ll not only have the software and user data, but also the devices. It’s not hard to imagine having a Samsung smart home (or hotel, or hospital, or stadium, etc) in the future. It might just have a bunch a brands stamped on everything to make you feel like you didn’t give all of your control to one corporation.

hello , I have a set of revel Ultima Gem  used probably 3 times. like new for 2500. if interested feel free to email dani23mccabe@gmail.com or call 9183271749 my father owned these before he passed. I have no use for them. Would love to sell as I need to. single mom one in college and I need to pay her ,dorm fees soon. if you agree not interested could you please spread the word! Thank you,
Danielle Allen
danielle231973,

For trying to sell your speakers you are best off placing an ad on Audiogon or in your local craigslist.  There are also other audio focused sites that you can place advertisements.  
Recently saw Revel auditioned at the Rocky Mountain audio show and was very impressed.

The performance to price ratio is more inline, without all the uber high end pricing craziness. They sounded great matched with a Levinson integrated amp.
As Displayname posted, expanding portfolio with different brands increases sales without the fear of the main company dominating the market in perception. Food companies have been buying out the natural/organic brands to change image and increase sales without spending the initial build up and R&D. General Mills bought Cascadian Farms and Muir Glen. Kellogg's bough Kashi and Gardenburger, Coca Cola bought Honest Tea, Hansen's/BlueSky, and Zico Coconut Water. Hormel bought Applegate Farms. Seems large electronics companies are just doing the same as the food companies. 
I went ahead and purchased the F35s (in black) as a pathway to better ones (the BE floorstanders are on the radar and others I'm waiting to hear).  
Does anyone have an idea of breakin time needed?  
Do you face them toed-in or not?
How far do you recommend placing them from back wall?
Any preferred electronics? (I'm using Rega Brio RT, Transparent cable).
Thanks!
forgot to add ---- has anyone tried the GAIA III floor discs?  I haven't setup the spikes yet, just using the rubber feet.  
My buddy matt has used them.  They are outstanding on the right speakers.  I personally feel that you need to try them first as most designers don't want you to change what they have used for anchors.  I own Vandersteen Quatro's and was thinking about using some of the GAIA"s or most probably the HRS devices, but Richard V told me to use get granite plinths.  Made a HUGE difference.  That maybe something you could try to see if that works.  Just a thought and another way to go. Congrats on the purchase.
Thanks for the footer comment ctsoner2.
Markun01 --- what speaker brand did you buy?
I really have no use for salespeople that bad mouth a competitor,or product they don't carry. I worked retail sales for a few years,and when someone came in looking for a brand we didn't carry, I always said the same thing, " that's a great product,however,let me show you (this highly rated product)"  Did it always win the customer over? No,but if they didn't purchase from me,at least they left my store not feeling negatively about me or the store. 
       
 Sales is asking the right questions,listening to what the customer is looking for,and product knowledge.  
Thanks rocray178 for your comments.  Others replies largely say the same, and I couldn't find any info to suggest any truth to it.
The writings on the wall. You can already see the uncertainty in used Revel prices. And dealers are getting a bit nervous about stocking products from Revel. 

I've heard that.  I went to one of their dealers who said that he thinks they won't be around long.  It's hard to think such a good brand would just be let to fail.  I think Samsung will do something to beef it up.
1) Johnk's comment doesn't make any sense --- no facts supporting it.  Comment about Revel used prices has no statistical validity and no evidence of dealer "nervousness".  
2) ctsooner2 - which dealer said that?  


why would I ever share that?  
Markun01 --- what speaker brand did you buy?

apparently it was Audio Physic Tempo plus, quite interesting speaker but with bass drivers on both sides of cabinet which probably might be problematic for some