Resistors


Hi,

mid-high crossover: Duelund Cast or Pathaudio resistors?

Thanks!

nic10
Nic, either will do. Makes no difference.
I don't have experience with either. But, I did extensively research resistors in advance of my Thiel crossover rebuild. Among all the subjective opinions I found (many here on Audiogon fora), everyone who heard Path Audio loved them. Dueland was almost as widely praised but a couple of people opined that Dueland, after long-term listening, wasn't necessarily better than, for example, Mills (which is what I ended up with).
I have used both extensively. The Path Audio are better in important ways. They are quieter meaning they reduce noise and are far more neutral sounding. Just so even handed top to bottom. The Duelund CAST resistors sound a tad tipped up in the presence region.  The Path Audio resistors are a great choice!
Resistors definitely do make a difference. However, once you make the move from five for a dollar to the good ones then you are in the same boat with resistors as amps, speakers, cables, etc. In other words its a personal taste call. My suggestion would be buy one of each, find a place you can swap, and compare. Probably they will be different enough to hear but only in direct head to head. The only way to know for sure though is to compare.
The difference can only be heard if the values are different. What value are you using?
The difference can only be heard if the values are different.
This was *not* my experience.
Experience matters, as does aural acuity. Sadly; the lack of either or both, rears it’s ugly head, quite often(and so obviously), in these threads.
aural acuity is not the issue. The issue is lack of evidence. If you were blindfolded, could you identify which resistor was which 100% of the time? 
I find the Duelund’s very very curious. They are deliberately temperature sensitive, which in the right place in the crossover could compensate somewhat for thermal compression in the driver. In the wrong place it could go the other way, and what happens if you don't have compression in the driver? This type of behavior is usually what we like to engineer out of our crossover.

I prefer to usue Mills for accuracy, thermal invariance, sound quality and small size for the wattage. They’ve always been glass smooth to my ears and good enough better compared to sand cast that I’ve not looked further.
I upgraded one channel at a time, from OEM sandcasts to Mills MRAs, and  compared them side-by-side using a mono mixdown. Obvious difference between them.


IF you feed the Troll, resistance is futile


So the way I found out about this, drove down to Oregon where my speaker's designer demo'd his new tweeter for me. It sounded great so I bought it. He said it requires a different crossover, which he showed me, and satisfied I could build it sent me home with the simple circuit diagram.
I went down to Radio Shack, bought the parts, put it all together, and called him up. This thing sounds nothing like what I heard at your place! It frankly sounds like crap! And no not "warm it up break it in" crap but "pure unadulterated never gonna get better crap." He asked me a few questions one of which was what parts did you use?

This was all years ago. Very hard to believe at this stage of my development. But, he must be right. I mean, everything else was the same. What else could it be? 

Week or so later after swapping in the much more expensive parts wow, world of difference! Now sounds just like what I remembered hearing at his place.
What this proves:1. Auditory memory is a lot longer than some people think; and
2. Parts quality makes a lot more difference than some would have you believe.
And some circuits require ruthless parts selection, tolerancing, tuning in the anechoic chamber and a test listen.

i know somebody that has been doing that since 1977. I met him in 1983. My religion since.
What this proves:
1. Auditory memory is a lot longer than some people think; and
2. Parts quality makes a lot more difference than some would have you believe.
you forgot 

3. it could be imaginary. 
Mmmm, treat yourself to a warm cocoa for saving the world from whatever it is you imagine you're saving the world from. <golf clap>
Some trolls remind me of really poor, Carbon-comp resistors.
The same linage of Troll said Stradivarius should have used Ace Hardware paint.....
Idjit causes further resistance

No breaking news at 9, just more of the same old, dumb old
I like Roederstein resistors.
No competition, I have used them both fr well over a year .Path Audio are typically under 1% max distortion
and very detailed and clear 
Duelund are nowhere near as low in distortion around 5% and the carbon is colored  sounding by comparison 
the path Audio need a solid 150 hours to fully runin .

Thank you Kenjit. I have built lord knows how many crossovers for dipole speakers. There is no where to hide the crossovers so I make them to look like art work. I chose the components that look the best. Good 1% resisters of the same value always sound the same. Once you get to 5% you might pick up a difference as it can get as high as 10 % between the two which is certainly audible. 
From a loudspeaker manufacturer I trust, after testing have moved from Duelund cast resistors to Path Audio resistors in his high end designs.

Once you get to 5% you might pick up a difference as it can get as high as 10 % between the two which is certainly audible.
which would explain what people are hearing. Just differences in value. 
Hi,
in low pass: 2,7 ohm
in band high pass: 2,2 ohm / 4,0 ohm / 5,6 ohm.

Now I can think of put in PathAudio resistors also in the woofer section.

Thank you all for the very useful information.
Hmmm, trust my LCR meter and my own ears in a side-by-side comparison or "kenjit"?
I would not spend the extra money on Path Audio for the woofers. I would use the Mills MRA12 resistors in that position.  They are also great and cost $5.  
I would not spend the extra money on Path Audio for the woofers. I would use the Mills MRA12 resistors in that position.  They are also great and cost $5.
That sounds like good advice to me, especially if budget is a constraint, but it may well be that upgrading the woofer resistors will also make audible improvements. I don't have experience with that but I did directly compare 160V and 250V versions of the same cap on my woofer boards (shunt caps, at that). It was a subtle thing, and some songs sounded pretty much identical thru either channel, but overall the thicker film channel sounded a touch more full, with increased ease of presentation, and a bit more bass heft/impact (most noticeable on kick drums and such).
Path Audio is the perfect resistor i have ever listened, you can also check from there to consider the difference :

http://guneytuncer.blogspot.com/2017/03/resistor-shootout-duelund-pathaudio.html
Hi
I will also keep in mind the MRA12 for the woofer.
What type of wiring do you recommend, solid core or multi-wire in copper or silver?
Thanks again for the advices.
what wattage are you looking for?
I like Mills, Path and if you can find them in your value, Riken and Shinkoh.
What type of wiring do you recommend
FWIW, I used Straightwire 18 ga solid on my new boards anywhere the cap or resistor leads were too short (or with foil-type coils which have no leads). But I used Cardas litz from the terminals to the boards and boards to the drivers  (various gauge depending on input or output and woofer versus coax board). I made no attempt to sonically compare the Straightwire to anything else but did compare the Cardas to the OEM 18 ga solid (unknown source).
'Good 1% resisters of the same value always sound the same'
That's so sad. Some people are incapable of, or unwilling to hear the difference.

I can't directly answer the question but can tell you that Mills are smooth and way better than the cast 'white' monsters that sound bad anywhere they are used, especially in power supplies.
Mills are great for low-pass and as shunt resistors but I find them a little too smooth in series with mids or tweet. I have been experimenting with Powertron,  a Vishay foil resistor which is vivid and displays fine detail and a brilliance that lights up the top end. This is not to be confused with brightness.
 The Powertrons are rated at 3W or 30W when mounted on a heatsink.


what wattage are you looking for?
7 watt.

I decided as follows:

- medium-high pathaudio
- woofer mills mra12

Thanks again!
Use Duelund DCA 16 gauge on the mid driver.  Use the 12 gauge on the woofer.  Both are stranded copper wire in oil impregnated cotton.  Great sound.